Folan was only yellow.
Also the omens seem to have been true. Players flew economy class like last time and the ref officiated a Champions League game between Cork City and APOEL which City won.
Folan was only yellow.
But it means if we draw with italy and beat montenegro, and italy and bulgaria win all their other games, we finish third.... not a chance i want bulgaria to win! it has no positives! a draw has exactly the same positives, with none of the negatives. we want a draw in that game, or secondly an italian win.Originally Posted by Metrostars
we do not, under any circumstances, want a bulgarian win. none at all.
A draw means 2 home wins and we're there, yes?
Great for my state of mind, probably terminal for my marriage.
I hear your points about the CM and their poor performance. However, does ye not think the way we play or the Trap has the team set up inhibits them.
They are largely anonymous, long ball after long ball. We can play the ball around as was evidenced by the first ten mins or so and particularly for the period after we scored our second goal. We kept the ball very well, played it around very intelligently and created a few openings. Cyprus didnt have a chance after we scored our second other than two silly free kicks.
Perhaps they should show more for the ball, but i think the long ball tactic is a big factor in their poor performances.
Also I thought Okkas gave Dunne a torrid time tonight, not a great showing from him, gave away silly free kicks particularly near the end and was fortunate not to concede a penalty.
Did we out-dive the Cypriots?
funny how it goes. I dont think this could have been more predicatble. Hands up how many people thought tonight would be a poor performance by Ireland which happened to finish 1-2.
CM is without doubt the problem, and has been for the last 3 years. as much as we can all admire Andrews and Whelen/Gibson for their effort, its only a matter of time before some mediocre team embarrases us. Like many on this forum I believe that Steven Reid will increase our potential ten fold, but on the odd occasion when he will be fit someone else is due to be injured. We have a pretty decent squad overall, its just a pity that at any one time someone important has to be injured, and they always tend to be the differance between an average Irish team and a mediocre one.
Having said that, is everyone else convinced that the Stephen Hunts future as an international player should be solely as an impact sub, and never to start a game. The guy can seriously change the whole tempo of a game
when he comes on a sub, but for me when he starts he is does F*** all.
4 points from our final two games guarantes second spot.
If we win the last two games, obviously guaranted second, but we may not get the top spot, if Italy get two wins from their other two games, at home to Bulgaria and Cyprus.
If Italy win on wed night, that is the group done and dusted in my opinion. We would then be playing for points to guarante a play off spot.
a draw on wednesday means two wins and we win the group, three points would get us into the playoffs
an italian win means two draws (or even just a win v montenegro) means we make the playoffs
a bulgaria win means we HAVE to win both our remaining games to win the group, anything less, anything at all, and we would almost certainly finish third
simple!
Geysir alluded to a Trapp quote suggesting that CM's poor showing was not down to tactics.
RTE at least asked the questins, Bill corretl;y asking was ita loack of confidence in the CM that caused the hoofing, Giles querying the moral couarge in showing for the ball etc.
We won anyway, Fcuking delighted. If you qualify you all start off on zero points, even Brazil. It's not like you're handicapped based on how you got there.
I can't imagine the French are doing cartwheels at the moment, or Portugal, or Italy...
Yes, having said that diving and Irish players is not new. Damien Duff against Spain in 02 for example.
Not necessarily, Bulgaria are five points behind us with 3 games left, so max they can get is 9 points. If they do, we would need to get at least 4 points to stay ahead of them, if we just managed the 4 it would come down to goal difference which after 2n is prob in Bulgaria's favour.
Disagree totally. The defender slid straight though Duff's path without winning the ball. If Duff had stayed on his feet he'd have lost the ball as a consequence of the attempted tackle. If the tackle hadn't come in Duff had control of the ball only yarrs from the goal. No contact (Duff maunufactured the contact) but 100% foul. Go to ground, miss the ball, you deserve to be penalised. Evetywehere in the world except UK & IRL this is appreciated.
Ya, except that if we get two draws and Italy beat Bulgaria, that would get us second but 12 points (discounting the Georgia 6) might see us miss out as worst second place team, if the Scots beat the Dutch.
Now that we've beaten Cyprus, a draw between Italy and Bulgaria is the dream result for us. 2 wins would then win us the group, and even if we lost to Italy we'd still be grand for the playoffs as long as we beat Montenegro.
It's unlikely that Bulgaria would win, but if they did, they'd still have to win in Cyprus to put us in trouble. They didn't win in Ireland, Georgia or Montenegro, so theres nothing to suggest they'll win both of those games.
They're probably sickened by our late winner as well. They were right back in it if we drew tonight, now it looks very unlikely.
Last edited by Eirambler; 05/09/2009 at 9:59 PM.
that's why i said 'almost certainly'... their gd is currently 1 goal better than ours, and if they won three games and we got a win and a draw.... i think their gd is going to be better if that happens
i didn't want to add things unnecessarily and was trying to simplify things, though i suppose there is always the chance they could draw with cyprus away.
anyway, if bulgaria beat italy and we draw with italy, we still probably finish beneath italy and probably bulgaria too. we can be agreed, bulgaria winning is a bad thing.
MAybe it was someone who fouled Duff who got a second yellow, I was watching on a choppy stream, bit hard to tell what was happening half the time, even missed the end of the game as the person streaming it put the TV guide on
Yea I though something was wrong when he said "he will miss the match against Montenegro" and I just checked and of course our next match is Italy, it is Cyprus who play Montenegtro next so it make sense now, must have been a foul on not by Duff, Duff tends to avoid
getting too physical what with his injury proneness and all.
Last edited by tricky_colour; 05/09/2009 at 10:06 PM.
The Bulgaria Italy match is a funny one for us, if Bulgaria win it is good for us topping the group however if Italy win it is good for a runner up place,
also I think a draw would be a great result as it takes two points off both.
I think I need to get my big calculator out for this one
You won't need your calculator, I'm going to post up an automated permutations calculator in a few minutes
Just prolonging the agony. Even if we somehow get to the playoffs the chances of getting any team as weak as the ones we have played in this group is very slim. We beat Cyprus to-night because they were missing their best players. At no stage in this match did I think we would win it.
We can’t retain possession, we can’t pass the ball and we can’t hold on to a lead. I don’t care what anyone says we have to pray that some left back appears out of nowhere, Steven Reid get fit and Trapp calls up Andy Reid.
thing is, in terms of us topping the group, a draw is as good as bulgaria winning (it means the italians go two points clear, or stay one clear... which makes no difference even if we beat them and draw with montenegro and they draw level, because their gd is so superior)The Bulgaria Italy match is a funny one for us, if Bulgaria win it is good for us topping the group however if Italy win it is good for a runner up place,
also I think a draw would be a great result as it takes two points off both.
I think I need to get my big calculator out for this one
in terms of finishing second, a draw is almost as good as an italian win (it means we'd need three points rather than two to finish second, that's it), but a bulgarian win leaves them two points down on us, with a superior gd.... not what we want
in relatively simple terms
italian win .... we need 2 points for second, 6 for first, with italy drawing v cyprus or losing.
bulgaria win .... we need 6 points for first, anything less and we need one of italy or bulgaria to drop points for us to get second.... otherwise it is third
draw .... we need 3 points for second, 6 for first, less if there are upsets in the other games
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