Irish Wolves and Opposition Irish

**ifk101** · 23/04/2012, 11:20 AM

I wouldn't be too critical of Ward after yesterday's game. He was caught out of position on occasion but in the context of Wolves chasing the game.

**Charlie Darwin** · 23/04/2012, 11:23 AM

The first goal was just pure quality - no way you can blame him for holding his position, although I think on another day he might have gambled and swept up the through ball. He's done it enough times for Ireland. The second I've seen several times and I still can't locate Ward anywhere on the pitch.

**Carrigaline** · 23/04/2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think singling out Ward is harsh - unless I missed some specific examples of him being poor.

I thought that Ward was at fault for both of the goals. In the first (build up starts at 4:20) if you look at the replay, you will actually see Ward is picking Aguero up. However, when Clichy starts his run, Ward allows Aguero to get away from him. Great ball from Clichy in fairness, so perhaps you can forgive Ward in that instance. The second goal (build up starts 5:50) was more blatant though. While it was a great break from City, Ward was nowhere to be seen when Aguero and Nasri exploited the space on his side to receive the ball and slot home. More awful defending comes at 7:40, Aguero exploits the space behind Ward and misses a one on one with the Wolves 'keeper. Last bit of awful defending starts at 8:15 when Ward gets sucked out of position and leaves Zabaleta with a ridiculous amount of space as he makes his run into the box and receives the ball.

Like I said, Foley actually didn't do too badly, he got forward a bit and defended alright. Bassong also had an alright game, was unlucky to pull up with a hamstring injury for the second goal. Stearman was useless though, his positioning was as awful as Ward's.

**Carrigaline** · 23/04/2012, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Bear in mind that Trap's Ireland will be better set up than Wolves - in theory anyway.

He has had two serious tests in a green jersey so far, the Russia game and the Czech Republic game. He had a disaster in the Russian game, the lad Kerzakhov tore him to shreds and it's amazing we even kept a clean sheet in that game. The second was the Czech Republic game and he was not convincing at all, other than the fact that McGeady was practically play as a left-back, we would have shipped a few goals.

**Charlie Darwin** · 23/04/2012, 12:13 PM

Ward was marking Arshavin in the Russia game.

**Murfinator** · 23/04/2012, 12:24 PM

Ward seems to be responsible for most of Wolves defensive lapses, I always put his selection down to being a favourite of Mick but I'm not sure what to believe since O'Connor is apparently a fan of him too. Either way I could see this being the end of him, with the old brigade of coaching shipped out I don't think he has a future at Wolves, nor do I think he's good enough to start at any championship club.

You can mark my words, bringing Ward to the Euros will be a costly disaster. Every team will target him, most will get their rewards. Would take Harte or a repositioned RB any day.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/04/2012, 12:29 PM

Who'd ever have thought we'd be hearing calls for O'Shea to return to left back?

**Irwin3** · 23/04/2012, 12:48 PM

Bit harsh on Ward really although a top-class left back might have done better with the first goal. Although I think Niall Quinn (fairly decent pundit from what I've seen) stuck up for Ward on the first goal. Ward is not marking Aguero. Aguero (the striker who is normally marked by the centre half) goes into the space between Ward and Bassong. Clichy then plays a great pass that takes Bassong out of the game. Bassong is equally to blame if not more so. He is in no-man's land: he can't cut out the pass and he is nowhere near his man.

It's the classic full-back dilemma. Try to cover your man out wide (Silva) and help the centre back out with the striker. Unfortunately he ended up doing neither just like Bassong. Although there is more blame for Bassong for me due to it being his man and him meant to be the last line of defence.

For the second goal Ward is virtually blameless. Where is Stearman? They are both up for the corner. Wolves switch off. There are about 18 seconds from clearance to goal. The fact is that players don't sprint back from corners and when they realise they need to it is already too late. From looking at it a couple of times the player most to blame is Jarvis who lets Nasri and Yaya run past him and into the space. At 6.08 Jarvis is about 10 yards ahead of Bassong. At 6.15 Bassong is about 10 yards ahead of Jarvis as Jarvis gets drawn to Tevez leaving the 2 men free.

**paul_oshea** · 23/04/2012, 1:10 PM

The only thing ive seen about ward is his first touch and control. Granted it surely didnt take him 26 years to perfect that.

I wouldn't have said for definite the first goal was his fault either, but there are 2 ways to view this. If its zonal area covering or man marking, depends on your view. Initially Ward is marking aguero, just before the camera shot for the ball comes on it, it showed from another area, ward lets him get a couple of yards ahead of him and then when the ball is played it looks more like the CB should be covering him. SO the question you need to ask is, if Ward was initially marking him which he was, should he then follow him the whole way - I think so - or should The CB spot the run(of aguero) behind him and cover the area the ball can be passed into whilst tracking aguero - I dont think so. I dont necessarily blame ward for the first one, but I think its up to him as he can see the run of aguero with no one else around(attacking i mean) he should track his run and mark him, the CB cant see where the striker(aguero) is at that point.

I find it laughable that people still try and defend Ward, and say things like its not his fault "because i cant see him/because he wasn't there", he should be fcuking there thats his position....:rollshead:

I said last year stearman would be there undoing, turns out it was this year instead

**Carrigaline** · 23/04/2012, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I find it laughable that people still try and defend Ward, and say things like its not his fault "because i cant see him/because he wasn't there", he should be fcuking there thats his position....:rollshead:

That's the problem I have. To me, it's pretty clear that Ward is not a natural left back. I don't think he is a bad footballer per se, but I think he is being made look worse than what he is by playing in a position that doesn't suit him. At a lower level, Ward might get away with this, but when up against superior opposition, he looks badly exposed both internationally and domestically.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/04/2012, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I find it laughable that people still try and defend Ward, and say things like its not his fault "because i cant see him/because he wasn't there", he should be fcuking there thats his position.

True, but who was defending him? I thought Charlie D's comment about him being nowhere in sight was actually a criticism. It's hardly a defence.

**paul_oshea** · 23/04/2012, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Carrigaline

That's the problem I have. To me, it's pretty clear that Ward is not a natural left back. I don't think he is a bad footballer per se, but I think he is being made look worse than what he is by playing in a position that doesn't suit him. At a lower level, Ward might get away with this, but when up against superior opposition, he looks badly exposed both internationally and domestically.

I was playing this in my head yesterday, the position thing, as I was thinking the exact same thing as you here, but then I thought where can you really play him? I dont think he could play as a winger either, the only real option was a sweeping midfielder in a 5 man midfield, he is an ok tackler and a decent touch with a good left foot to play the ball out of defense, but even then I felt I was clutching at straws. I just dont think he is a good enough footballer for the premiership or really even the Championship. I just hope he has invested his salary wisely over the last few years.

**paul_oshea** · 23/04/2012, 1:53 PM

Stutts, it wasn't an isolated comment or contribution but its been said a few times on here now.

**Charlie Darwin** · 23/04/2012, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

The only thing ive seen about ward is his first touch and control. Granted it surely didnt take him 26 years to perfect that.

I wouldn't have said for definite the first goal was his fault either, but there are 2 ways to view this. If its zonal area covering or man marking, depends on your view. Initially Ward is marking aguero, just before the camera shot for the ball comes on it, it showed from another area, ward lets him get a couple of yards ahead of him and then when the ball is played it looks more like the CB should be covering him. SO the question you need to ask is, if Ward was initially marking him which he was, should he then follow him the whole way - I think so - or should The CB spot the run(of aguero) behind him and cover the area the ball can be passed into whilst tracking aguero - I dont think so. I dont necessarily blame ward for the first one, but I think its up to him as he can see the run of aguero with no one else around(attacking i mean) he should track his run and mark him, the CB cant see where the striker(aguero) is at that point.

Left backs don't mark strikers. Aguero is the only player Bassong and Stearman had to mark and he lost them constantly. Ward is usually good at sweeping up centre halves' mistakes - he's cleaned up after Dunne/O'Dea/Sledge loads of times for Ireland - but on this occasion he didn't make the right choice. Doesn't mean he's responsible.

I find it laughable that people still try and defend Ward, and say things like its not his fault "because i cant see him/because he wasn't there", he should be fcuking there thats his position....:rollshead:

No, that was a criticism.

**SwanVsDalton** · 23/04/2012, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I just dont think he is a good enough footballer for the premiership or really even the Championship. I just hope he has invested his salary wisely over the last few years.

He's five seasons a regular at both those levels, at striker, left-wing and left-back. Bit late to declare him a non-footballer.

Bit ridiculous too in fairness, I think the professional managers and coaches who've had the chance to work with him see it differently for a reason.

Just to be clear I'm not defending his form, haven't watched Wolves at all recently. But he does seem to be getting a serious savaging for what boils down to bad form in one of the worst sides the Premiership has ever seen.

If Richard Dunne was looked at purely on his league form over the last two seasons, his international career would be finished.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/04/2012, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

If Richard Dunne was looked at purely on his league form over the last two seasons, his international career would be finished.

You could say the same about many Irish internationals over the years.

I think we all have concerns over Ward against teams as good as those we're facing, but I agree that some criticism is OTT. For the record, I think I'd start with Kelly (RB) and O'Shea (LB) as our full backs myself, but I'm not wholly comfortable with the way our back 4 lines out.

**SwanVsDalton** · 23/04/2012, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

You could say the same about many Irish internationals over the years.

Absolutely. Autopsying league form can be instructive but I think pretty much our entire first XI have been in a similar predicament as Ward in the past 12 months or so.

Never fancied O'Shea at LB, don't really think he's comfortable there as he is on the right. Always remember playing Wales at home under Stan. He played Finnan LB and O'Shea at RB after a few games of John playing on the left.

At the time I thought it was nuts but Finnan kept Bellamy fairly quiet and O'Shea looked more comfortable. Poor manager he may be, but Stan knew a thing or two about playing LB.

Trap really should've taken another look at Wilson. We should have two legitimate options in every position - even if Ward was a superstar, we're not well served at LB.

**geysir** · 24/04/2012, 8:24 AM

It's not a done deal that Trap will take just 7 defenders. Wilson is poor at full back, his positioning is ok, ball delivery mostly excellent but has the poise and effect of a lamppost when a player takes him on.

How has Cunningham been getting on at Notts Forest?