The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

**Sam_Heggy** · 07/12/2009, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by harps1954

2. If not, under what name have the 'new-Derry City' applied for a First Division licence?

"Derry City 2".

Derry City 1 was already tried but the application came in blank.

**osarusan** · 07/12/2009, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by BYCTWD

I would assume the exact same right Rovers, Cork and Drogs have. The football club still exists.

My understanding is that DCFC is still an entitly, but the holding company has been would up and replaced.

If that is the case, I'd expect Derry to be facing a pretty hefty points deduction come the start of next season.

**John83** · 07/12/2009, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Tapping up? Not an auspicious start to this, "we won't make the same mistakes as the last lot" club, is it?

Most of those players would be out of contract.

'Tapping up' is a fairly retarded football-centric concept in the first place. Imagine no one could approach you about a job without your current boss's permission? Ridiculous!

**marinobohs** · 07/12/2009, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by harps1954

Two questions:

1. Has the trading name 'Derry City FC' been transferred or sold to the new company yet?
2. If not, under what name have the 'new-Derry City' applied for a First Division licence?

Unfortunately this is yet another example of the FAI making things up as they go along. while well intentioned (nobody wants to see Derry ouside football) the continuing failure to adhere to thier own rules has led to a hotch potch of half rules/regulations that lead to the current chaotic situation. I am half waiting for the FAI to say "we are going easy on Derry this time but if it happens again................."

**OneRedArmy** · 07/12/2009, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

To me the new Derry City should either be in the A-league (because they're new) or else in D1 with a points deduction (because they're not really new and have been in administration).

That wasn't the point I responded to.

You intimated Derry had taken the easy way out and that if given the chance other clubs would follow suit. I think thats nonsense, as the personal consequences can be immense.

Your point about the FAI is a separate issue and I'm not going to defend their handling of the affair. I firmly believed that just like with Limerick and some other clubs, the FAI knew the end game they wanted and fitted the rules around achieving that.

**osarusan** · 07/12/2009, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I firmly believed that just like with Limerick and some other clubs, the FAI knew the end game they wanted and fitted the rules around achieving that.

Spot on. I'd imagine that the rule book isn't detailed enough that some fudgey areas can't be found.

That said, I'm truly wondering how Derry will manage to both play in Div 1 and avoid a points deduction.

That will have to be some top class fudge.

**Sam_Heggy** · 07/12/2009, 2:05 PM

It's claimed on the Muckers forum that the Dungannon Debt is now settled

http://www.derrycitychat.com/forum/v...=unread#unread

**tiktok** · 07/12/2009, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by BYCTWD

Its the same Rovers, Drogs and Cork that came through the examinership process.

Well actually, No, it's not because in all those cases, the holding company which owned the club emerged successfully from Examinership. CCIFL , which was in examinership in 2008 have been the holding company for CCFC since the Brian Lennox era. The holding company of Derry City is not being taken through examinership by any group, a separate new entity is being established.

Originally Posted by dcfc_1928

Does the new company mean that we are a new club? Especially if the trading name Derry City FC is transferred/sold to the new company?

Thats the bit I can't get my head around.

The existing FAI contract [which is torn up anyway] and membership can only be transferred to a new entity if that entity fully absorbs all the debts of the previous owning entity. If New/Cherry/Continuity DCFC was able to absorb the debts, there'd have been no need to wind up the old company.

You can certainly buy the trading name and continue as the old club and good luck to you, but from the perspective of licencing, participation agreements, membership of the FAI, contracts with the association you are a new club and Prize money from the previous entity, European places, Setanta Cup places etc., etc., cannot be carried on.

Avoiding a situation where clubs could spend beyond their means, wind it up and start again as a new holding company is exactly why licencing was established.

**Mr_Parker** · 07/12/2009, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by BYCTWD

And Derry complied with them at the time. The issue is whether they get pulled half way through, and I can't see that happening. Its not the FAI's decision at this point.

"They" is not the "Derry City FC Ltd" who want to step into their shoes.

**MariborKev** · 07/12/2009, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by BYCTWD

I would assume the exact same right Rovers, Cork and Drogs have. The football club still exists.

My understanding is that DCFC is still an entitly, but the holding company has been would up and replaced.

Care to point me to where Wellvan has been wound up?

**Buile Shuibhne** · 07/12/2009, 7:32 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...h/8400601.stm?

**Mr A** · 07/12/2009, 7:44 PM

Seems daft on Dungannon's part to settle for less than full payment, surely they knew that DCFC needed the debt settled to get a D1 license?

**refjohn** · 08/12/2009, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Seems daft on Dungannon's part to settle for less than full payment, surely they knew that DCFC needed the debt settled to get a D1 license?

And Dungannon also knew no license for DCFC meant no money at all.....

Derry not out of woods yet - Linfield and Cliftonville AT LEAST to settle with yet.

**Steve Bruce** · 08/12/2009, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by refjohn

And Dungannon also knew no license for DCFC meant no money at all.....

Derry not out of woods yet - Linfield and Cliftonville AT LEAST to settle with yet.

Surely the debt owed to Linfield is a different kettle of fish all together. It's not like its an unpaid bill.

It was pure theft. They sold tickets on our behalf to DCFC supporters and then instead of giving the money straight to Linfield they decided to stick it in their own pockets. It was never DCFCs money in the first place

Could you imagine if I went around the grounds collecting for Charity and went 'f**k it, I've a few debts, I'll use this money to pay it off'. It is the same principle, it's not my money and it's theft.

I hope people don't take this personally, because I'm not for a second blaming any supporters of DCFC, they cannot help that Parasites got controll of their club and run it into the ground whilst sullying the name of Derry City.

**A N Mouse** · 08/12/2009, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Surely the debt owed to Linfield is a different kettle of fish all together. It's not like its an unpaid bill.

It was pure theft. They sold tickets on our behalf to DCFC supporters and then instead of giving the money straight to Linfield they decided to stick it in their own pockets. It was never DCFCs money in the first place

Could you imagine if I went around the grounds collecting for Charity and went 'f**k it, I've a few debts, I'll use this money to pay it off'. It is the same principle, it's not my money and it's theft.

I hope people don't take this personally, because I'm not for a second blaming any supporters of DCFC, they cannot help that Parasites got controll of their club and run it into the ground whilst sullying the name of Derry City.

Um...

Surely it's exactly like an unpaid bill.

I stand to be corrected but in your example surely it would depend on how you collected the money.

If you used an open bucket, and kept the money for yourself then you've gained that money fraudulently.

If it was a locked tin, then you've stolen it and damaged property.

If you 'borrowed' it with the intention of paying it back...

**OneRedArmy** · 08/12/2009, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Surely the debt owed to Linfield is a different kettle of fish all together. It's not like its an unpaid bill.

It was pure theft. They sold tickets on our behalf to DCFC supporters and then instead of giving the money straight to Linfield they decided to stick it in their own pockets. It was never DCFCs money in the first place

Could you imagine if I went around the grounds collecting for Charity and went 'f**k it, I've a few debts, I'll use this money to pay it off'. It is the same principle, it's not my money and it's theft.

I hope people don't take this personally, because I'm not for a second blaming any supporters of DCFC, they cannot help that Parasites got controll of their club and run it into the ground whilst sullying the name of Derry City.

No, its a debt, just like all the other unsecured debts (albeit the "footballing" debts seems to have gotten some bizarre semi-preferred status which certaintly wouldn't stand up in court).

Whether the directors were trading wrecklessly, is, IMO, a very valid question to ask.

**refjohn** · 08/12/2009, 5:37 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Surely the debt owed to Linfield is a different kettle of fish all together. It's not like its an unpaid bill.

It was pure theft.

I agree 100% on that - they had cash in their hand which I was personally told on the Friday was to be handed to Linfield on Saturday - hence the reason no tickets were to be on sale on the Saturday morning. I even posted on your Forum my disgust at being unable to get a ticket given then only had to pack up at 1pm or 2pm for a 5pm kickoff in Belfast and could still hand over the money.

In hind sight I would be tempted to believe that when Derry made a last minute decision to sell tickets on the Saturday it wasnt to facilitate fans and get Linfield extra revenue....

At least Linfield have a chance to get their own back and withhold monies for the return leg (assuming the stories about DCFC in one guise or another still being in Setanta are true) - however any settlement along those lines would probably see it being based on Linfield getting (a) more tickets than they have had for previous ties and (b) a guarantee on the money being paid if a shortfall if your fans vote with their feet and dont attend (I wouldnt blame them for many reason)

Derry City FC Limited need Linfield (and Cliftonville) to agree to something - partial payment, payment plan, tickets in lieu of payment depending on circumstance if their is any chance of us having a team to support next season.

I think the amount Dungannon were offered was too much for a small club to sniff at and considerably more than if Derry don't get a license and go to the walls in every way. What could the Dungannon board do - the alleged amounts will go a long way in covering their expenses. Linfield and Cliftonville are seemingly owed less and could gamble on all or nothing......

The saga on Foyleside continues..... At least the Derry Journal worth waiting for these days to see the latest twist in the soap opera.

**dcfcsteve** · 09/12/2009, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

The point is that most people (including Derry fans?) are too sure if "they" are the same Derry as now. tiktok certainly doesn't think so.

I can assure you that "most" City fans see no difference between the club new and old. It's all DCFC. Different Directors and trading entities, same club.

And the Setanta was an invitational competition. It's up to Setanta whether to leave us in it or not.

Originally Posted by Mr A

There's a lot more to a club than just its directors. And from a club point of view what I said was entirely accurate. Also I think a lot more people than just the directors knew exactly what was going on.

Please outline the horde of people beyond the Directors who you think knew what was going on ?

Originally Posted by Mr A

Certainly this wasn't intended, but DCFC seem to be more than landing on their feet with the former board (albeit deservedly) being the patsys.

Being kicked out of the league/dropped a division at best ; having all our players released as free agents ; having our reputation torn to shreds both locally and nationally ; still not even knowing if we'll be allowed to play next season. Yip - really landed on our feet there.....

Mod edit - use the multi-post, FFS.

And trolling removed.

**Mr A** · 09/12/2009, 8:57 AM

Small price to pay for walking away from that amount of debt Steve. And all indications are that you'll be allowed to play next season, and not even at the bottom of the senior pyramid.

I'd take your arm off for a similar deal if it got rid of Harps debts.

If some of your fans had a fair idea what was going on, why would anyone believe that a lot more people round the club didn't know as well. Certainly Kenny and the players, even if they're all acting innocent now. Ever since the last set of Wellvan accounts a lot of people have been very suspicious.

**Sam_Heggy** · 09/12/2009, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

In fairness, the lure of roundabouts and traffic lights would be enough alone to tempt most banjo players out of Ballybofey...

Ah but, it didn't work.
Besides, we Donegal folk don't need traffic lights to pick up women we do things the old fashioned and legal way, sorry about bringing the law into it, I know that's a forbidden word up about the Randywell.
As for Roundabouts, we don't need them, we just let the biggest tractors go first and drive over the top of Nordy reg cars in the way.