The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[Mr_Parker]

No, as season is already over, all results stand, but derry are removed from the league table. Top and Bottom of the table would still look the same.

As the season has been completed, Derry's results stand. So say the FAI.

In the IFA Articles of Association, even if all the games are finished, the official end of season date is the 31st May. If something comes to light in the period between the last game and that date it would still have an impact. Do the FAI not have a similar rule?

For example, let's say the league has gone down to the wire between two teams and the day after the last games it is found that a player was found to have been ineligible a scored the winner that one one of the teams the league. This isn't found out until a few days after the league finished when the refs report etc is sent in. So that would just be tough? Somehow I don't think so.

[dcfcsteve]

Yes, you could see their massive fanbase over the last few months. Don't be so naive. The bandwagoners are gone now. Derry will get a similar crowd to us next year in the 1st Division.

Well we managed a bigger crowd than you in the Premier Division, even when you were top of the league......

[Martinho II]

I am devastated for Derry City Fc as longford town fc have wonderful memories of playing them from the mid eighties cup matches to the city fans sitting on the dressing rooms roofs at abbeycartron! It will be hard to get back to the league of ireland but for the sake of soccer I hope that Wellvan will be dissolved get rid of the nastiness around the club and start again.. It did Limerick a world of good starting all over again.. McDiaid has an awful neck on him.

Hopefully things will work out for them..

[EalingGreen]

EG,

The details transferred from Derry City FC to Wellvan in 94, and possibly could transfer again.

Very possibly, though the entity which Wellvan took over had not been been thrown out of the LOI, which difference may be critical.

EG,
The rest of the post once against smacks of egotistical nonsense.

What on earth is "egotistical" about any of it?
And as for "nonsense", you may not like or agree with it, but neither have you refuted my suggestion that any new entity which replaces Wellvan may find it difficult to justify playing in the ROI or gain a licence for the IL.

[EalingGreen]

Why say "I am not sure if Derry will be playing under the FAI or IFA in the future" in seventeen words, when you can say it in 824?

Because if I were to say it in those terms, DCFC fans would either dismiss it, or demand I back it up.

As I said to Maribor Kev, if what I am saying is incorrect, illogical or prejudiced etc, why not demonstrate how, rather than just "playing the man"?

And EG - what's this obsession you have with "DCFC2010". You are the only person I have seen using this abortion of a name.

Oh ffs! It's just shorthand - i.e. quicker than typing "the new Derry City" or somesuch.
I'd have thought DCFC fans had somewhat more to worry about than that.

[Mr_Parker]

Not sure if this has been asked or mentioned but are all the results void versus Derry and the points going to be reallocated accordingly?

No, as season is already over, all results stand, but derry are removed from the league table. Top and Bottom of the table would still look the same.

As the season has been completed, Derry's results stand. So say the FAI.

In the IFA Articles of Association, even if all the games are finished, the official end of season date is the 31st May. If something comes to light in the period between the last game and that date it would still have an impact. Do the FAI not have a similar rule?

For example, let's say the league has gone down to the wire between two teams and the day after the last games it is found that a player was found to have been ineligible a scored the winner that one one of the teams the league. This isn't found out until a few days after the league finished when the refs report etc is sent in. So that would just be tough? Somehow I don't think so.

Just had a look at the FAI rulebook.....seems all is not clear cut.

RULE 39. PLAYING SEASONS
(a) The Winter Season shall be 1st August ending 31st May except for competitions under the auspices of the
SFAI which shall end the 30th June.
The Summer Season shall be 1st March ending 30th November
The Current Season shall be defined by the calendar year in which every League commences

Surely the FAI have to follow their own rules?

[EalingGreen]

Why don't you and your bluenose buddies toddle off to discuss your great league elsewhere. We're not interested in merging with anyone.

If you replaced Derry City with "girl" and Irish League fans with "men in raincoats", you'd all be charged with stalking and subject to an exclusion order.

"How to Win Friends and Influence People", eh?

P.S. My "bluenose buddies"?

[John83]

Surely the FAI have to follow their own rules?

When Dublin City made like a banana, their results for the full round of fixtures they had completed remained. This is consistent. Frankly, I don't think it changes the table any, so who the heck cares?

[pineapple stu]

When Dublin City made like a banana, their results for the full round of fixtures they had completed remained.

Nope; all their results were expunged.

[Mr_Parker]

When Dublin City made like a banana, their results for the full round of fixtures they had completed remained. This is consistent. Frankly, I don't think it changes the table any, so who the heck cares?

It may not change anything but demonstrates that the FAI need to think before they speak. They can hardly preach rules to others when they don't even know their own rules.

[Mr A]

I think it's the participation agreement which is the issue here- that's the contract that they terminated.

[Celdrog]

Nope; all their results were expunged.

There is a rule somewhere that when a certain percentage of games are completed the results stands and clubs are then awarded points on the percentage basis of points won in the games against the expunged club (bit like the duckworth lewis in cricket).
With Dublin City they went early in the season they had only played a few games so the results were scrapped.
The FAI are being consistent here.

[pineapple stu]

There is a rule somewhere that when a certain percentage of games are completed the results stands and clubs are then awarded points on the percentage basis of points won in the games against the expunged club (bit like the duckworth lewis in cricket).

Is that a rule, or is it just an urban legend?

I think Dodge posted it first that I saw; I wonder at times if it's like the 54321 jersey sales...

[OneRedArmy]

"How to Win Friends and Influence People", eh?

P.S. My "bluenose buddies"?

I'm not trying to do either.

I'll state it clearly again: the will of the vast majority of our fanbase is to remain in the LoI, at the highest level we can and to explore every opportunity we can to do that.

If, despite our best efforts, that isn't possible, then I suppose we'd look into alternatives. However all our efforts at the minute are in achieving the former, and even if the LoI is ruled out, you'd have a large percentage of support who have zero interest in supporting Derry City in the IL.

No matter how you dress it up, you have re-phrased essentially the same post for the last two or three weeks numerous times. You get a broadly consistent answer back, repeatedly, and yet you keep asking it ad nauseum.

Ask it again if and when the LoI don't let us back in, but until then, its a moot discussion.

[pineapple stu]

No matter how you dress it up, you have re-phrased essentially the same post for the last two or three weeks numerous times. You get a broadly consistent answer back, repeatedly, and yet you keep asking it ad nauseum.

Have to agree with this. Can we leave aside speculation as to whether Derry should rejoin the IL and move on?

[Angus]

I would be devastated if this happened to a club I support and I would probably be very annoyed with those responsible

And I know that UCD is in a unique environment with the facilities and the assembly line of players, but what did we expect ?

This is precisely what we have been criticising the FAI for not doing - and it is one of those occasions when it is very unfair on the club getting hit first because of the unpunished precedent elsewhere - but unfortunately it happens that way sometimes

One occasion where I have to agree with the FAI's response

[thischarmingman]

This was posted on our forum today by themed. The user who posted it joined the forum today, and has made two posts so far, this being one of them. That is not in any way to undermine them, just covering myself and letting everyone on this forum draw their own judgement based on the same facts as we have on ours. Make of it what you will, I'm sure official reports will be in the media soon enough.

i went along to the press conference today and agree that the so called local journalist failed to ask the pertinent questions! Pat mc daid was flanked by solicitor Des doherty, and 2 other board members. Forgive me if i get the dates wrong. Pat said that he received a phonecall from an FAI official tuesday evening inviting them to dublin on wednesday regarding help with ongoing difficuties. He stated the FAI official said they should come down as the FAI have experience with clubs in financial difficulties and they would offer advice before the board made any decision they later regret. He emphasised that the FAI official told him they would be among footballing friends! Pat attended a meeting on wednesday with the vice chairman and four FAI officials which lasted 3 hours approx.

Pat stated their was no mention of players contracts during this meeting apart from a passing comment in the last 5 mins of the meeting regarding players contracts 20 yrs ago when he was 12! It moved on to Saturday then when Derry were summoned to meet the FAI in Dublin. John delaney then seemed to take draconian measures in Dublin. Des doherty spoke that no formal charge was labelled at Derry city and they were in a room with 17 officials from the FAI. Des stated he could see a4 paper in front of the officials and asked could he see the paperwork on behalf of his client, he was refused. He stated they were not allowed to question the FAI officials.

He stated he was involved in high profile legal matters throughout the world (bloody sunday,Iraq) and that the way business was conducted beggered belief. He went on to talk about a players contract which he would not name. He said that players contracts are lodged and stamped with the FAI. I need to be careful from this point on as i dont want to mislead anybody. From what i understand a player had a contract which was replaced 11 days later with another contract which was lodged and stamped with the FAI. Des stated that the official contract states that any previous agreement between the two parties was null and void. If anybody was at the press conference and read this point differently, please post and if i got it wrong apologies in advance.

Des went on to state that they were left sitting in the room for 2 hours before the FAI returned and expelled derry from the league. He went on to state that John delaney refused them access to the later press conference and when he asked Mr delaney for the 60,000 euro for finishing fourth to help pay the players, Mr delaney told him they were not getting it. Des stated that on Monday morning he will start legal proceedings from his office with regard to money owed and pat stated they will also be challenging the expulsion also.

[sheao]

Very sad news to hear Derry being thrown out of the league, this are a vital part of the league and add an awful lot to it. I really hope that they can come to some agreement with the FAI to have some involvement in the LOI.

[hedderman]

It's very interesting from a legal perspective. I don't know anything about Sports Law and don't know how they are planning to challenge the meeting. It's interesting to note that the initial statement last night on the club's website was very vague:

"We are currently exploring any possibility of any type of appeal procedure within the FAI or via a court of law in Dublin or Belfast."
http://www.derrycityfc.net/cityweb/

From the post above, it appears that the FAI may have not have completely covered themselves legally. If the FAI had been an administrative tribunal, I think it would be highly likely that Derry City would be able to institute judicial review proceedings against them. How that would work in the FAI's case, given that they are not a government organisation, I do not know.

I can understand the reasoning behind taking legal proceedings, given that the FAI are not going to pay the club money for 4th place and the European participation money is in jeopardy also. I don’t know where Derry will get the money to bring the matter to court though.

Whether a court case will be for the good of the club either, it is difficult to tell. It may well hinder the creation of a new entity and add more difficulties in an already divisive situation.

[cestlavie]

With respect, that's a load of cr*p and Pat will tell you that himself

Do you think Pat was likely to stay when all he got from a section of the DCFC support was abuse, Frodo et al. I witnessed it myself and Im sure you did too, he knew where he stood.