The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[Mr A]

No End In Sight Says Derry Journal

[Raheny Red]

It so disappointing to see some Derry fans have a heads in the sand attitude when some of the same people were so critical when certain Shels fans adopted a similar approach 3 years ago.

Let them take their oil

[MariborKev]

It so disappointing to see some Derry fans have a heads in the sand attitude when some of the same people were so critical when certain Shels fans adopted a similar approach 3 years ago.

Really, which fans are those then?

[OneRedArmy]

Mweh

You just quoted yourself?

And we need help?

[pineapple stu]

Really, which fans are those then?

I assume he's referring to dortie's "Sure let's wait and see" post.

[MariborKev]

That is one fan.

The rest of us have been warning of this for months.

[A N Mouse]

As I've said many times before the enforcement NI legislation around administration is worlds away from the examinership process. Its chalk and cheese.

HRMC look for c80% upwards iirc from the last time we went under.

That even ignores the lack of goodwill we have built up which only makes it a more remote possibility.

I don't have the exact figures, but last time we were there the figure was somewhere around the 85% mark.

Whereas Coleraine, and again don't have the figures, had to pay somewhere between 15% and 30%.

[EalingGreen]

You just quoted yourself?

And we need help?

Jeez! I didn't quote myself [sic] in order to try to "justify" what I was saying etc; rather it was to clarify your response i.e. maintain the train of thought.

Still, I suppose it all helped deflect from the point which I was making, about which you have rather less to say...

[EalingGreen]

I don't buy this. More clubs in the LoI don't own their grounds than do. Sligo's is held in trust (as are several others - Athlone? Monaghan?), Shams, Fingal and Waterford have council-owned grounds, UCD's ground remains the property of the college. Shels have sold theirs, Bohs have sold theirs, Bohs have sold theirs, Cork rent, as do Limerick and Galway (?). Drogheda's is owned by the FAI since a bail-out of old. There was a thread on this a while back.

To clarify my original point: I did not say that owning your own ground is the only secure model for operating a club. If a club has a long lease on a ground, that can also provide security (to raise capital etc), or even if it has a long relationship eg with a supportive Council or Football Association etc which does own their ground.

It seems to me that the root of DCFC's problems are that they have none of these, therefore when they "hit rough water", it is so much harder for them to find someone prepared to "bale them out".

P.S. It bodes ill in the future for those clubs which have sold their ground, without securing a replacement. As a means of saving a club, selling your ground is something that only works once. Or twice, if your Bohs...

[dcfcsteve]

To clarify my original point: I did not say that owning your own ground is the only secure model for operating a club. If a club has a long lease on a ground, that can also provide security (to raise capital etc), or even if it has a long relationship eg with a supportive Council or Football Association etc which does own their ground.

It seems to me that the root of DCFC's problems are that they have none of these, therefore when they "hit rough water", it is so much harder for them to find someone prepared to "bale them out".

P.S. It bodes ill in the future for those clubs which have sold their ground, without securing a replacement. As a means of saving a club, selling your ground is something that only works once. Or twice, if your Bohs...

EG - I don't know why you insist on tying yourself in knots with strange conjecture and chin-scratching over DCFC.

The bottom line for City is the same as it is for every other club. We need to be run in-line with our income. As we have consistently had one of the biggest crowds in the league, that should give us a decent shout at silverware (so long as everyone else plays within their means, which appears to be slowly happening).

So ownership of our ground is a complete red herring, and not the source of our problems. Bad management and chasing the dream has been the deeper problem. The reason for which probably has more to do with the fact that Derry is a graveyard for ambition - and was made deliberately so by generations of Northern Irish administrators. People of talent leave Derry - and whilst there are good people who remain, they account for a much smaller percentage of the city than a more successful town would have.

Back on topic. The bad times for clubs should be on the field - not getting yourself in such a hole that you have to flog your assets to cover your operarting costs. There's only so many times a league ground can be sold/mortgaged.

Live within our means. It really is that simple....

[EalingGreen]

EG - I don't know why you insist on tying yourself in knots with strange conjecture and chin-scratching over DCFC.

If I have "tied myself in knots", you haven't demonstrated how. As for my "conjecture" and "chin scratching", pardon me for being interested, or having an opinion...

The bottom line for City is the same as it is for every other club. We need to be run in-line with our income. As we have consistently had one of the biggest crowds in the league, that should give us a decent shout at silverware (so long as everyone else plays within their means, which appears to be slowly happening).

So ownership of our ground is a complete red herring, and not the source of our problems...

...The bad times for clubs should be on the field - not getting yourself in such a hole that you have to flog your assets to cover your operarting costs. There's only so many times a league ground can be sold/mortgaged.

Live within our means. It really is that simple....

No-one, including me, is saying that clubs should not live within their means - that much is a given.

But while a club can never ignore good business practice, football is not like most other businesses - that's why people who have been succesful in 'the real world' are often notably unsuccessful in the unreal world of football. For instance, the demand for "Success Now", even when it conflicts with long-term planning etc, is more marked in football than most environments.
And even where a club sticks rigourously to sound management practices, they can still be knocked off course by events beyond their control.
A good example is Arsenal - arguably the best managed club in the EPL. Their Board, whose members are no longer "wealthy" in modern footballing terms (eg Abramovich), have been desperate to fend off Arab Sheikhs and Yankee Billionaires, who may not have the club's best interests at heart, from taking them over.
Therefore, the whole Highbury/Emirates move was designed to have two elements: 1. The Emirates would double revenues (it has), whilst 2. The profit from the redevelopment of Highbury (which they kept in-house rather than selling to a Developer) would produce a massive capital injection.
Of course, they didn't anticipate the Crash, so that Highbury will now probably just break-even, which is what now makes them vulnerable to Kronke and Ushmanov(sp?).
Anyhow, my point is that even the best-run clubs need capital, with the only difference between eg the EPL and the LOI being the number of noughts on the end.

Unless, of course, Derry is different in that respect, as well as in so many others...

[John83]

Anyhow, my point is that even the best-run clubs need capital

You haven't proven this at all. The only difference in this league between the clubs who own property and those who don't is that the former sell up when in trouble, and the latter declare bankruptcy and reform.

[passerrby]

I don't buy this. More clubs in the LoI don't own their grounds than do. Sligo's is held in trust (as are several others - Athlone? Monaghan?), Shams, Fingal and Waterford have council-owned grounds, UCD's ground remains the property of the college. Shels have sold theirs, Bohs have sold theirs, Bohs have sold theirs, Cork rent, as do Limerick and Galway (?). Drogheda's is owned by the FAI since a bail-out of old. There was a thread on this a while back.

the grounds are 100% owned by monaghan United.

sorry for ogoing of thread

[sligo23]

http://www.loi.ie/index.php/about/pr...-fai-statement

[Buile Shuibhne]

Do the FAI have to have a specially convened Board meeting to officially bail out Derry?


http://www.loi.ie/index.php/about/pr...fai-statement?


Did they convene a special Board meeting when Shels went bang in January 2007?

Did they **** - they summarily relegated us and have been riding us rock solid ever since.

[SMorgan]

Any bail out would have to involve relegation.

[Mr A]

That's some quality self pity right there. Who says they are going to bail them out?

[Buile Shuibhne]

They don't need a board meeting to relegate them or sanction them under the licencing rules?

They're obviously going to do something extraordinary that requires an extraordinary board meeting

[Mr A]

They don't need a board meeting to relegate them or sanction them under the licencing rules?

They're obviously going to do something extraordinary that requires an extraordinary board meeting

Maybe they're going to turn them into rabbits.

[kdjaC]

Maybe they're going to turn them into rabbits.

can we buy tickets or is it blockbookers only ?