A Serious Thread....

[pineapple stu]

If you want a hand-guided tour through where Bohs could save money, then I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you. I make no apologies for thinking that non-playing/coaching wages being twice a decent First Division side's entire budget is over-spending. You'll need to use some of your own common sense and guesswork here.

It's clear that their non-playing/coaching expenses are higher than 35% of their turnover, and they're in trouble. I'm suggesting that's not a coincidence, in my opinion, and is indicative of a general failure to control costs. That's all.

[Ezeikial]

If you want a hand-guided tour through where Bohs could save money, then I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you. I make no apologies for thinking that non-playing/coaching wages being twice a decent First Division side's entire budget is over-spending. You'll need to use some of your own common sense and guesswork here.

Whats all this waffle about? Any fool coud find areas that Bohs could save money in these 2008 accounts, and you know right well that I did not ask you for any guided tour.

What I did ask you was to expand on your rational for the opinion you expressed here-

To be honest though, I'd say if you are spending 35% of your turnover as one of the larger clubs in the league, you've got problems anyway.

This is the nearest you've got to addressing it-

It's clear that their non-playing/coaching expenses are higher than 35% of their turnover, and they're in trouble. I'm suggesting that's not a coincidence, in my opinion, and is indicative of a general failure to control costs. That's all.

I can only conclude that you are unable to support your original opinion.

[pineapple stu]

Their operational expenses are over 50% of their turnover (E1.1m of E2.0m), and they're in trouble. That's not a coincidence. You have stuff like bad debts of E33k, audit of E18k, pre-season costs of E35k, etc - a lot of costs which could be cut down. Their cost control is poor, and I think having operational expenses higher than 35% of turnover is indicative of that. It was a general intuitive supposition; I'm not required to back that up with specific proof, FFS. You can have a look at the figures and form an opinion for yourself, or ignore it, but preferably do it without moaning like a girl.

[John83]

Their operational expenses are over 50% of their turnover (E1.1m of E2.0m), and their in trouble. That's not a coincidence. You have stuff like bad debts of E33k, audit of E18k, pre-season costs of E35k, etc - a lot of costs which could be cut down. Their cost control is poor, and I think having operational expenses higher than 35% of turnover is indicative of that. It was a general intuitive supposition; I'm not required to back that up with specific proof, FFS. You can have a look at the figures and form an opinion for yourself, or ignore it, but preferably do it without moaning like a girl.

PS, this isn't on. Unjustified attacks like this are really beneath you. Frankly, I think it calls your position as a moderator into question. I can't believe you'd stoop so low as to make a sweeping generalisation about girls.

Ezekiel, sweeping generalisations about budgeting aren't going to be backed up. Man up.

Wait... damn.

[pineapple stu]

So easy, isn't it?

[White Horse]

......Although i'm not quiet sure, a serious intelligent debate could be carried out on here anymore but i'll give it a bash.

A timely reminder at this stage in the thread?

[Mr A]

The leagues biggest problem is that the clubs seem to be run by incompetent morons.

And that's the better run clubs.

In my view the supporters at each club need to come together and take over/ influence things as much as possible to move towards sustainability and good governance.

[Magicme]

Players wages are too high. Simple.

Cut wages back. Sure we will lose a few players who want more money and will try get it abroad but the league will survive. No player in the league should be on more than €1000 a week and the average Premier Divison wage should be about €700-800.

Players arent at fault, its the clubs offering stupid wages that have gotten clubs into trouble.

[oriel]

The leagues biggest problem is that the clubs seem to be run by incompetent morons.

The biggest problem is my view is attendances are too low. What have we now going to the 5 Prem games each w/e, 10,000 or 11,000 on avg ? and 2,500 for the 6 FD ?

I remember reading an article in the Herlad 20 yrs ago when it said we could be on trouble as the overall crowds have dropped below 20k.

[Ezeikial]

The leagues biggest problem is that the clubs seem to be run by incompetent morons.

And that's the better run clubs.

In my view the supporters at each club need to come together and take over/ influence things as much as possible to move towards sustainability and good governance.

Finanical prudence and good governance is assured by becoming a members club?

[micls]

The biggest problem is my view is attendances are too low. What have we now going to the 5 Prem games each w/e, 10,000 or 11,000 on avg ? and 2,500 for the 6 FD ?

I remember reading an article in the Herlad 20 yrs ago when it said we could be on trouble as the overall crowds have dropped below 20k.

This is just an excuse imo.

Clubs go into a season knowing they wont be getting 10k at a game. Therefore the budget should reflect that. When it doesnt and clubs still get into trouble then attendances cannot be blamed.

You might be able to blame attendances on us not having a stronger league, not doing better in Europe etc but you can't blame them for incompetent financial planning

[micls]

Finanical prudence and good governance is assured by becoming a members club?

He didn't say that.

He said fans should be coming together and ensuring their club is sustainable. Not that fans coming together will make the club sustainable.

Fans can protect he future of their clubs if they run them, that doesn't mean they always will, but they are in a position to.

[Mr A]

The fans of the club are more likely to have the long term sustainability of the club at heart and are less likely to walk away when things go pear shaped.

I believe that fans groups at each club making it clear that they want sustainability and prudence would be an important step towards reigning in the insanity. I believe that real progress in the league must be driven by the clubs themselves and that the fans are ultimately the people most likely to make this happen.

That doesn't mean that the fans won't get carried away, be incompetent idiots or whatever, or that every club should be fan owned, but a well organized Trust at the very least is a must have for clubs in my opinion.

[osarusan]

You might be able to blame attendances on us not having a stronger league, not doing better in Europe etc but you can't blame them for incompetent financial planning

100% spot on excellent correct.

[Ezeikial]

He didn't say that.

He said fans should be coming together and ensuring their club is sustainable. Not that fans coming together will make the club sustainable.

Fans can protect he future of their clubs if they run them, that doesn't mean they always will, but they are in a position to.

The fans of the club are more likely to have the long term sustainability of the club at heart and are less likely to walk away when things go pear shaped.

I believe that fans groups at each club making it clear that they want sustainability and prudence would be an important step towards reigning in the insanity. I believe that real progress in the league must be driven by the clubs themselves and that the fans are ultimately the people most likely to make this happen.

That doesn't mean that the fans won't get carried away, be incompetent idiots or whatever, or that every club should be fan owned, but a well organized Trust at the very least is a must have for clubs in my opinion.

I agree with the core of both these posts. My earlier post was simply pointing out that it does not automatically follow that a fan owned club (members club or co-operative) will act wisely and prudently.

It is also a sad irony that it usually takes a crises within a club to galvanise real action by a significant proportion of fans. Supporting an exisiting Trust, or setting up one where none exists, should be a high prioirity of all genuine fans in this current climate.

[micls]

It is also a sad irony that it usually takes a crises within a club to galvanise real action by a significant proportion of fans. Supporting an exisiting Trust, or setting up one where none exists, should be a high prioirity of all genuine fans in this current climate.

On the trust issue, our trust was well on the way before the crisis, derry have had one for a while, as have sligo, galway and dundalk etc.

Obviously people are far more willing to dip into the pockets in a crisis, but once the trust/procedures are in place youre in a far better position than if you've nothing at all anyway, when the crisis does come.