Quoteno, but Garvan won't leave before the January transfer window, i think Keane will be gone by then.Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Fair enough, if he fails under different managers or at different clubs, then that will probably be a fair test.
no, but Garvan won't leave before the January transfer window, i think Keane will be gone by then.
Whatever happens, I don't believe Keane will voluntarily leave Ipswich until he's had at least a full season in charge.
Otherwise, he'll have established such a reputation for walking out when things get tough (or he simply gets fed-up), that only the most desperate Chairman of
a small club* will ever take a chance on him again.
Therefore, any player who's still on Ipswich's books come the end of this month, is stuck with him until the next transfer window opens (imo).
* - Cork City it is, then
Some players may have the physical attributes but not the mental attributes or application / commitment. Luck often plays a part too. Plenty of good players don't get to play at a level they're capable of, plenty of mediocre players get to play at a higher level than they should be. Same in all businesses. I 've worked with some complete half-wits!
I'm really just saying though that we've had a lot of false dawns with some of our young players. Shane Supple is a recent example. 2 years ago he was a teenage goalkeeper iplaying first team football. Billy Clarke was one of the hottest young forwards in The Chamionship. Stephen Elliott scored 18 goals in just over half a season at Sunderland and so on.
All manner of circumstances can conspire to either lead you to the top echelons or to relative obscurity. Ability should never work against you - but its the least you are going to need.
Whenever I hear Garvan mentioned, I think of Trapps original training camp in Portugal. I was encouraged to hear that both Garvan and Whelan would be involved and actually thought that Trapp would fast-track Garvan with Whelan a lesser possibility.
If utilised correctly and with a bit of insight - Garvan could become a real asset to a club of a certain playing style.
Quoting years at random since 1975
Probably more suited to somewhere like Italy though. Even a team like Celtic who dominate most games. In fact he's perfect for Mowbray's Celtic as replacement for Donati who fails too often.
I never understand this notion that a player who is struggling in one country will flourish in another country, merely because of the "style" of play in the latter.
The fact is, whilst particular footballing "styles" may suit certain players more than others, top level countries like Italy also require additional attributes such as a minimum level of talent, application, physical accomplishment and commitment etc.
(Which is why the very top players will still be top players, regardless of the environment they are playing in)
Now I've no idea whether Garvan is being held back at Portman Road by any deficiencies in the above aspects of the game.
But if he is and he's struggling to make it in a mediocre English club, why should he do any more than struggle similarly in Italy, even at one of their mediocre clubs?
Are you seriously comparing the 100 miles-an-hour "style" of the SPL to the football played in Serie A?
The fact is, if Garvan were to go to Celtic and prove a success, the most likely explanation would be that the standard in the SPL (Old Firm games excepted), is arguably even worse than that of the Championship.
P.S. I am not having a go at Garvan when making these points, since I don't know nearly enough about the player himself.
good post EG.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Does anyone actually think it would be good for Garvan's development to stay at Ipswich under Keane? What has he done in terms of developing young players so far?
I wouldn't say he's struggling per se, he's been a first team regular for 4 seasons since making his debut at 17 less then a year into his apprenticeship. He's had spells out of the team before and always come back strong. It just looks to me that Keane doesn't fancy him which is a kick in the teeth as he's always been his idol. Probably best to move on at this stage, the lad's only 21 and already has bags of Championship experience, he'd find another club no problem at that level.
agreed - Cardiff or West Brom would both suit his style id say and he would have a fairly good chance of promotion to the Premiership with both..
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Has any player had anything good to say about Keane as his manager?
Last edited by geysir; 25/08/2009 at 5:09 PM.
Well to add fuel to the speculation on here Garvan isnt even on the bench for Ipswich tonight in Carling cup
Its really not that complicated!!!
That's crazy talk EG. There's dozens of players that are stars in certain leagues that have even failed in the SPL because of the hectic style of play. I'm certain Andrea Pirlo would struggle at a weak Championship club. Definitely.
The reason I'd see Garvan having a lot more success at Celtic is because they dominate play playing football on the ground. Garvan doesn't have a problem playing in matches when his team are dominating. It's the long ball, physical battle, crap football games that he doesn't like.
Garvan is a quality midfeilder who has the ability cut open defences and is capable of been in the irish senior squad. We have gibson and whealan who are more defensive midfeilders and with steven ireland out and andy reid not looked at he our a future prospect
Im my opinion Keane will be the ruining of Ipswich. Ipswich are known as a club for bringing through their young players and play attractive football and ive never seen roy keane nurture any talent at sunderland and they werent the prettiest team to watch. Ipswich will be broke and there best young players will be sold.
Andy Reid backs up what a few fans said about Keane:
"I suppose we didn't know the direction that he wanted to go. We probably weren't made too aware of it. It was a case of go out on the pitch and do what you do. It was a completely different mentality. He believed players should go out on the pitch and automatically know what to do because managers didn't need to tell him what to do. That wasn't the case with us because we weren't as good as he was. I felt we needed direction and I think with the manager we have now we have that."
Garvan not making tonights bench confirms that Keane was referring to him anyway.
I don’t know what Keane's motive is when he buys Irish players only to mess them about shortly after they arrive. Does he not do any kind of research into their ability before he brings them to the club? McShane , Harte, O' Donovan, Reid ,Healy, Delaney and Stokes are just a few who spring to mind. I know Garvan is not one of his recruits but he appears to be putting the blame on him for his bad start. Surely he has to look at himself somewhere down the line?
Whatever about developing them, he's not afraid to give young players a chance with Leadbitter, Waghorn and Liddle and Sunderland and yer man Wickham and ,I think either Trotter or Peters, at Ipswich.
The thing about Keane as a manager I think is that we all want his tenacity and application to rub off on someone with the attributes of Garvan or Stokes. He clearly rewards effort and commitment and as such has seen mediocre players like Whitehead, Nosworthy and Collins forge premiership careers where I don't think they would have had they not played under Keane. (Just my opinion. I know all three were signed by Mick but Noz was a stinkin right full and Collins was in and out.).
I wonder how does he reward effort and commitment or does he just expect that as a given from a player?
You'd think though with the absolute awe and respect all these young players have for Roy that he'd have to do is say well done and the player would break his bóllix to get another compliment.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks