QuoteGood one, and sure they haven't won the World Cup in 3 years so they're a load of rubbish. A disgrace that Caleb Folan, Andy Keogh and Noel Hunt couldn't run rings around a nobody like Cannavaro, let the country down so they did.
Originally Posted by Jicked
Maybe FIFA will allow us play every game with an extra man, considering that it went so well for us against Italy, giving us our finest hour!!
Good one, and sure they haven't won the World Cup in 3 years so they're a load of rubbish. A disgrace that Caleb Folan, Andy Keogh and Noel Hunt couldn't run rings around a nobody like Cannavaro, let the country down so they did.
A disgrace that these 3 were deemed as Irelands best options to have on the pitch.
Don't be so silly. If you watched the game you'd realise that Italy had three defenders playing against a team with an extra man for 90 minutes all well into their 30s. Any half decent international team would have beaten them under those conditions. Fair enough if they were 1-0 up and only had a man sent off in the last 20 minutes then that's a vastly different situation but playing a game for 90 minutes and having to grab a goal with 10 men is extremely difficult. To put this into perspective United would struggle to beat any of the relegation threatened teams at Old Trafford under the same conditions and they don't even have 3 ancient defenders. Even then Italy managed to score and looked more than comfortable for their win (they even had some other good chances) until all bar the last 5 minutes when we started getting a few chances after Keane scored a goal out of nothing.
I'll also add that the Italian team is also the worst Italian team I have ever seen in my life. They were shocking in the European Championships but if it makes you feel better bring up the World Cup again it was only 3 years ago after all. You might as well mention the 1982 World Cup also they were brilliant then too.
All these people making out how good the Italian performance was would have been the same people slagging us off if we hadn't been fortunate and got a lucky goal in the final minutes. How they now conveniently forget we hadn't created one decent chance in 90 minutes of play against 10 ageing players before this goal amazes me.
We were poor against Italy just very, very lucky with first the sending off and then the goal otherwise we would have been hammered.
Last edited by youngirish; 26/08/2009 at 10:07 PM.
While I dont necessarily agree with all the points above, i am glad to hear there are other people who think being held to a draw against a team who played 90 minutes with a man short is rather embarassing. It should be said that the Italians traditionally make hard work of qualifying campaigns but come good in the finals. Nevertheless I think there are lesser teams than us who would fancy their chances of a win against a 10 man Italy for a full game.
Excuse me, I forgot how Andy Reid, Clinton Morisson and Shane Long would have struck fear in to the heart of the Italians.A disgrace that these 3 were deemed as Irelands best options to have on the pitch.
I don't know why you're playing the age card so vigourously. AC Milan won the Champions League in 2007 with a back four all in their 30s. Richard Dunne will be 30 next month, will he suddenly become a liability you can't expect 90 minutes from? Rio Ferdinand will be 31 soon, the washed up has been.
We're not a great team, we won't break down anyone easily, especially anyone with a defence as experienced or as talented as that Italian team, who are going to play 80 minutes with one thing in mind, defence, and seeing out a win is something which despite their age, they are pretty bloody good at doing.
Don't bite Jicked, these guy's have a lot to learn about football.... their opinions are whatever team has the most players will win, I don't understand why Italy even continued the game after the red card, must not have had a calculator on the bench.... or one of those darned solar powered ones from the 80's.
If they ask you to explain the offside rule.. leg it.
I'm fairly certain I have very little, no correction, nothing to learn about football from the likes of you and Jicked. I've already explained why our result against Italy was no great performance reread again you might get it this time. Anyway you're on shaky ground sideing with Jicked as judging from his reply he still hasn't grasped the basic concept that 10 men will inevitably have to do considerably more work than 11 on the pitch (hence why age and tired legs comes into it) as their team will not have as much possession as normal and they will inevitably be under more pressure for most of the game so why he's mentioning AC Milan in 2007 I have no idea unless I missed something and they played all their games en route to the final with 10 men for 90 minutes in which case fair play you got me.
If beating ten men is so difficult maybe Italy should have only started with 10.
Last edited by youngirish; 27/08/2009 at 9:25 AM.
Italy are nowhere near as bad as you're making out YI. They are the World Champions on merit, largely down to their ability to defend well. You say they were hopeless at the Euros but it still took a penalty shoot out to knock them out at the q/f stage, by the best team in the World, who couldn't break them down in 120mins. Ireland finished 12pts behind a team that didn't even come out of their group, in qualifying for that competition. Were you really expecting Ireland to create chance after chance away to an Italian team defending a one goal lead with ten men? I don't agree with everything Trap has done so far, far from it and am nowhere near as quick to jump to his defence as Jicked is, but that night we did ok.
4 Italian players were over the age of 30 that night. Buffon 31, Grosso 31, Cannavaro 35and Zambrotta 32. This depiction of Italy being a team full of geriatrics is well wide of the mark.
Yes better teams might have taken full of advantage of a 10 man Italian side but we are Ireland and put out a team consisting of: Given; McShane, Dunne. O'Shea, Kilbane; Keogh, Whelan, Andrews, Hunt; Doyle, Keane. We lack the creativity and spark needed to take apart teams who can sit back for the whole match and defend 1 goal leads. Particularly when up against a country that is renowned for its defending. It wasn't a spectacular performance by any stretch of the imagination but to dismiss a solid point away from home particularly taking into account the team we actually put out that night is harsh.
Plenty of teams do play the way Italy did when they went down to 10. Rangers in Europe for one. It's hard to beat and Italy are the best in the world at it.
We looked like a classy team against Italy imo.
What a ridiculous statement.
Do you also think that Jordan looks like a classy bird??
I'd agree with Eirebhoy. I thought we moved the ball around very well in that match. Perhaps that was down to the extra man but in any case I thought we played well and the passing was generally good.
What are you talking about? You disagree, fair enough, no need for the above rubbish.
The way we played in Italy was how I'd expect the likes of Croatia to play in similar circumstances. The passing was brilliant. Quick and short. When Italy got the ball they were hassled off it in an instant. Trust me if Italy could have held onto the ball they would have but they weren't allowed and Pirlo was taken off at half time because he simply couldn't hack it. Teams can play against 10 men and look very ordinary but we played really well imo.
It comes as a relief to see that other people actually felt we played well against Italy. I thought we were excellent, played with great composure, positivity and confidence - but wasn't able to find a single person after the game who agreed!
As for the whole issue of playing against ten men, there are three things I would point out. Firstly, it wasn't our fault (a) the Italians couldn't keep their discipline and/or (b) the referee overreacted. We attacked an Italian side full of technically superior players for the rest of the game and were certainly worth our goal. Rash finishing from Keane cost us the winner. Poor refereeing robbed us of a second red card - Chiellini went right through Glenn Whelan in a very dangerous tackle and should have been red-carded. Cannavaro made a couple of rash challenges too that should not have gone unpunished.
Secondly, it must be borne in mind that we were away from home. I could indulge in some fanciful philosophising about the home crowd being the 12th man, thereby replenishing the Italian deficit to 11 men, but I won't. The advantages of playing at home are well established in sports psychology. We shouldn't be so quick to write it off just because we were the away side.
Thirdly, and staying with sports psychology, there is also the phenomenon of the Ringelmann Effect. This is made manifest in soccer by the fact that a team which is reduced to ten men conversely ends up working harder and, on average, gains points more often than they lose. You might point to the fact that Italy took the lead shortly after the red card as an example of this. So the fact that Ireland drew against ten men should not be used as a stick to beat the Irish players. Sport is a complicated, counter-intuitive thing. That's my take, anyway!
I never dismissed the point but some of the statements on here claiming how excellent a performance it was are ridiculous. We didn't create anything in nearly 90 minutes of play and were almost caught on the break again. We were lucky that's all to grab the equaliser. And I agree our team is poor. I'm not having a go at Trapp he's doing well with a limited bunch of players but the performance was definitely not good.
We had 11 shots on goal, 6 on target. 10 corners. Of course we created chances.
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