Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

[naoise kennedy]

press release on bray web site..


Bray Wanderers are highly critical of the way that the League of Ireland today issued the fixture list for the 2010 season.

General Manager Jack O'Neill said:
“We are absolutely dismayed that the League of Ireland has issued a set of fixtures which places Cork City who currently have no licence to play in the League of Ireland for the coming season in the Premier Division while Bray Wanderers who obtained a Premier Division licence have been placed in the First Division.

As the 10th ranked team to receive a Premier Division licence from the Independent Licence Committee we find it staggering that the fixtures have been released in such a fashion. It is our belief that the release of these fixtures in such a format is inherently flawed and should not have been released in this format in advance of the outcome of the High Court case involving Cork City and the decision of the Independent Club Licensing Committee on Monday 22nd February”

[Doomofman]

Nice to see clubs speaking out about what the FAI are doing

[Nedser]

If the decision on licensing was taken earlier only a handful of clubs would make it.Since licensing came in this has been going on. The FAI have been bending over backwards to try & get clubs through the process.You should either meet the criteria or not & if not you don't get a license,end of story. I think if this attitude was taken you would be surprised how quickly clubs would catch on. Like the old saying "Give them an inch & they'll take a mile"

I think you're broadly agreeing with me, but what makes you say if the decision was taken earlier only a handful of clubs would make it. I think 15 clubs have been granted Premier licences (excl Cork). Can you give examples of what all those clubs did between Christmas and now to get over the line? And given that some will deffo be in the First Division, why would they bother doing anything extra to get a Premier licence? I suspect that now we're a few years into licensing the majority of clubs would have complied with requirements in December if the decision was taken then (i.e. if they knew the decision was going to be taken then).

[jan molby]

rumour has it the license committee is to head up NAMA .More good news for the bankers

[Buile Shuibhne]

ok so updates now needed.
Cork were given 48 hours to pay revenue on monday.
Did TNB hand over the cash today or did the gimp miss another deadline?


Has there been any news on the takeover actually progressing? coz the last figures being bandied about was debt of 800k (107k to the revenue).
That would leave 693k divided up with other creditors of which the 2 boys in the consortium makes up about 280k which would leave the balance of debt roughly at 413k which is roughly 213k more than what the consrtium seemed to be prepared to go with.

Just trying to get it all straight in my head atm.

from the Indo:

Cork debts close to �900k

By Neil Ahern
Thursday February 18 2010

THE potential takeover of Cork City remained in the balance yesterday after the local consortium hoping to purchase the club found that it has debts of close to �900,000.

The local consortium had been informed that the debts were at �600,000, but were not prepared to purchase the club until they filed through the level of potential debt.

The Leeside outfit's tax bill, meanwhile, was cleared yesterday after their AIB account was unfrozen by the High Court on Monday, allowing Tom Coughlan to transfer the �107,653 to the Revenue's accounts.

[weecountyman]

I'm not sure if I believe the latest coming out of the takeover bid, mainly because it is most likely a normal business ploy to push up the debts to get a better deal from the seller - if Cork City is a car then it has 4 bald tyres, no windscreen wipers, a clunking noise under the bonnet, in need of new bearings, filters, sparks, has a hole in the exhaust, and has a different coloured drivers door.

[SMorgan]

The FAI appears to have lost sight of what the licence is about and why it was required. In recent days the FAI have stated that the primary function of the licensing system is the protection of creditors and employees of clubs. This is nonsense and little more than the FAI doing the groundwork to allow Cork City stay in the Premier Division. That just lets clubs spend like there is no tomorrow and then play an emotional card when clubs are called to account.

The Licensing system is about fair play. It’s about creating an even basis on which the league can operate and that clubs don't benefit from irresponsible management and poor financial control. To say that a primary function of the licensing system is to protect club employees is to allow clubs act as they want and then try to make the FAI responsible for the mess they get themselves into. For the FAI to adopt such an approach is to give a way-out for the likes of Cork who have sole responsibility for looking after its own creditors and employees. The FAI has to do the right thing and give Bray their rightful place in the Premier Division and give Dundalk the European spot which they deserve. Any other result will leave the domestic game open to ridicule. And please don’t tell me that it’s not the FAI, it’s an “Independent Committee”.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0218/bray.html

[derm]

I'm not sure if I believe the latest coming out of the takeover bid, mainly because it is most likely a normal business ploy to push up the debts to get a better deal from the seller - if Cork City is a car then it has 4 bald tyres, no windscreen wipers, a clunking noise under the bonnet, in need of new bearings, filters, sparks, has a hole in the exhaust, and has a different coloured drivers door.

The consortium is offering to buy 10,000 shares at 1 cent a share and take on the debts. €100 for the club. It also has indemnified itself against debts over 600k. Tommy will be liable for these (although he will have to be chased through the courts no doubt). There is no better deal and every one knew that there was a real possibility of debts hidden in the woodwork.

[razor]

More debts emerging by the day.
The fact that Tom is owed money for office rent is Rushbrooke is sickening.
I'd rather let him rot at this stage.

Also now that he has paid the taxman from the Long/Meyler money, what has happened the 50K extra?

[weecountyman]

More debts emerging by the day.
The fact that Tom is owed money for office rent is Rushbrooke is sickening.
I'd rather let him rot at this stage.

Also now that he has paid the taxman from the Long/Meyler money, what has happened the 50K extra?

The leftover money is gone on an overdraft, I thought, which would preclude a licence.

The consortium is offering to buy 10,000 shares at 1 cent a share and take on the debts. €100 for the club. It also has indemnified itself against debts over 600k. Tommy will be liable for these (although he will have to be chased through the courts no doubt). There is no better deal and every one knew that there was a real possibility of debts hidden in the woodwork.

Derm, you probably can't answer this, but what is happening with the current players (George, Dave etc) and coaching staff (Roddy and his dream team) who are under contract of some sorts? Surely the players who've been lining out for pre-season, and those who are still under contract, are not just doing it for the good of their health.

[derm]

The leftover money is gone on an overdraft, I thought, which would preclude a licence.

Derm, you probably can't answer this, but what is happening with the current players (George, Dave etc) and coaching staff (Roddy and his dream team) who are under contract of some sorts? Surely the players who've been lining out for pre-season, and those who are still under contract, are not just doing it for the good of their health.

I'm not 100% sure if the AIB overdraft is real or a rumour but either way revenue has been paid.

CCFC is under a transfer embargo. I think it's for breaking the 65% rule (though it might be for non-payment of players & staff). The players you mentioned (Dave and George) may have "signed" as such but they're not registered so no contracts exist. All but one of the contracted players (to my knowledge) are on strike until TNB steps down from the club.

[yiddo]

Derm, you probably can't answer this, but what is happening with the current players (George, Dave etc) and coaching staff (Roddy and his dream team) who are under contract of some sorts? Surely the players who've been lining out for pre-season, and those who are still under contract, are not just doing it for the good of their health.

Afaik no one is getting paid most of them aren't contracted to the club and if they have agreed conracts theyre not registered. Cant be registered due to licence situation. Fora lot of them its just an extended trial and keeps them fit.

As for he manager whatever Roddy is he isn't a fool and the word is he got paid upfront by tnb.

[disgruntled]

press release on bray web site..


Bray Wanderers are highly critical of the way that the League of Ireland today issued the fixture list for the 2010 season.

General Manager Jack O'Neill said:
“We are absolutely dismayed that the League of Ireland has issued a set of fixtures which places Cork City who currently have no licence to play in the League of Ireland for the coming season in the Premier Division while Bray Wanderers who obtained a Premier Division licence have been placed in the First Division.

As the 10th ranked team to receive a Premier Division licence from the Independent Licence Committee we find it staggering that the fixtures have been released in such a fashion. It is our belief that the release of these fixtures in such a format is inherently flawed and should not have been released in this format in advance of the outcome of the High Court case involving Cork City and the decision of the Independent Club Licensing Committee on Monday 22nd February”

Perhaps they felt it would be unfair not to publish the fixtures because it would inconvenience all the clubs instead of just one or two. I can well understand why Bray should be upset at this turn of events but it would be a bonus for Bray if they were promoted to the Premier Div. It would be very difficult for them but a bonus none the less & they would have the option of staying in the 1st Div if they so wished.

I think you're broadly agreeing with me, but what makes you say if the decision was taken earlier only a handful of clubs would make it. I think 15 clubs have been granted Premier licences (excl Cork). Can you give examples of what all those clubs did between Christmas and now to get over the line? And given that some will deffo be in the First Division, why would they bother doing anything extra to get a Premier licence? I suspect that now we're a few years into licensing the majority of clubs would have complied with requirements in December if the decision was taken then (i.e. if they knew the decision was going to be taken then).

Just because 15 clubs have been granted Premier licenses now doesn't mean they would have been granted Premier licenses back when they made their applications.The licensing body frequently goes back to clubs for additional information before their applications are finalized.The whole idea of the licensing system is that clubs would strive to improve their standards with proper planning etc so that if they are offered or win a Premier Div place they will be ready to step up to the extra standards required.
As to clubs being compliant with the requirements the past season has showed that some clubs although they have a premier license are still sticking to the bad old ways which made the League of Ireland such a joke over the years.Some times old habits die hard.

I'm not sure if I believe the latest coming out of the takeover bid, mainly because it is most likely a normal business ploy to push up the debts to get a better deal from the seller - if Cork City is a car then it has 4 bald tyres, no windscreen wipers, a clunking noise under the bonnet, in need of new bearings, filters, sparks, has a hole in the exhaust, and has a different coloured drivers door.

I understand what you are saying but if you lived down here & knew Coughlan you would understand why this due diligence is happening in Cork.A better deal from the seller doesn't apply here as the seller Coughlan is getting nothing for the club. The problem is the debts the previous owner has built up & where he has hidden them.

The FAI appears to have lost sight of what the licence is about and why it was required. In recent days the FAI have stated that the primary function of the licensing system is the protection of creditors and employees of clubs. This is nonsense and little more than the FAI doing the groundwork to allow Cork City stay in the Premier Division. That just lets clubs spend like there is no tomorrow and then play an emotional card when clubs are called to account.

If the FAI had said no license straight away to Cork,the club would have gone out of business & any creditors or employees would have got nothing. By delaying the granting of a license the FAI have given time for a possible takeover of Cork so getting some guarantee that the creditors & employees would have some chance. You may not agree with it but it is within the license manual to do this.Many fans in Cork think they should have been thrown out & denied a license. I think people have most problems with the FAI because of the way they run the league but some clubs still have a lot to do to get away from the old way of doing things.

The Licensing system is about fair play. It’s about creating an even basis on which the league can operate and that clubs don't benefit from irresponsible management and poor financial control. To say that a primary function of the licensing system is to protect club employees is to allow clubs act as they want and then try to make the FAI responsible for the mess they get themselves into. For the FAI to adopt such an approach is to give a way-out for the likes of Cork who have sole responsibility for looking after its own creditors and employees. The FAI has to do the right thing and give Bray their rightful place in the Premier Division and give Dundalk the European spot which they deserve. Any other result will leave the domestic game open to ridicule. And please don’t tell me that it’s not the FAI, it’s an “Independent Committee”.

Dundalk didn't qualify for Europe because they didn't get the required number of points. Due to the problems in Cork last season they lost half a squad of players in the middle of the season & still Dundalk couldn't take advantage. The only reason Dundalk didn't qualify for Europe is because they weren't good enough.
As to Bray having a rightful place in the premier Div. Bray were relegated because they again didn't get the required number of points. They got a second chance when Derry were thrown out of the league but even then they couldn't take advantage. If Bray get into the Premier Div it would be a bonus & they don't have to move up if they don't want to.

[tippex]

The level of debt that is starting to be bandied about is surely going to hamper the consortium if the takeover goes ahead.
I know if it was my money and we were bailing Bray out of it I would not be going in at the level of debt being mentioned.

It would take the club years to get over the level of debt being mentioned.

[Real ale Madrid]

[/B]

Dundalk didn't qualify for Europe because they didn't get the required number of points. Due to the problems in Cork last season they lost half a squad of players in the middle of the season & still Dundalk couldn't take advantage. The only reason Dundalk didn't qualify for Europe is because they weren't good enough.
As to Bray having a rightful place in the premier Div. Bray were relegated because they again didn't get the required number of points. They got a second chance when Derry were thrown out of the league but even then they couldn't take advantage. If Bray get into the Premier Div it would be a bonus & they don't have to move up if they don't want to.

As a fellow lifelong CCFC I have to say I completely disagree . Dundalk didn't qualify for Europe because the team above them, CCFC cheated thier way to a higher position by employing players they could not afford, same with Bray re the Premier Division - Cork City didn't stick to the rules, Bray and Dundalk did.

By the sounds of all the debts emerging CCFC could not afford to pay any any players last season, which means we should have had a completly amateur side on the pitch which would have resulted in Dundalk currently holding the Europa lge spot and Bray still in the premier because Cork City would have been rock bottom and preparing for life in the first division.

The club licencing system should be protecting the likes of Bray and Dundalk who live within thier means - not prolonging the activites of people like TnB. I must admit I have great sympathy for them.

[Dodge]

Just realised that because the licensing body is independent, sanctions can't really be brought to clubs for criticising it. Fair whack of irony there...

[rambler14]

Nice to see clubs speaking out about what the FAI are doing

It would be nice to see more follow Bray in speaking up and if Cork get their Premier licence hopefully the teams who met their criteria refuse to play Cork City.

If Cork get a licence it will be the end of any sort credibility left for the FAI. They didn't hesitate in fecking Ramblers in to the A Championship for less but I suppose that was alright because Ramblers are only a small club.

Are Cork being allowed play in Europe btw??

[Stevo Da Gull]

The league is doing well to bring attendances down, this must be encouraging casual fans not to waste their time with the league.

As for Bray, apart from the fact that the transfer window closes on the day we find out what division we're in, it has been mentioned in our forum that we won't be entering a team into the A-Championship if we're in the first division due to the cost. However if we're in the premier we would like to enter a team in the A-Championship.. this doesn't seem to bother the powers that be and it would appear we are being punished for playing by the rules. Regardless of who should be in what division, this should have been sorted by now - or at least don't fudge around with 'deadlines'.

[tippex]

The league is doing well to bring attendances down, this must be encouraging casual fans not to waste their time with the league.

As for Bray, apart from the fact that the transfer window closes on the day we find out what division we're in, it has been mentioned in our forum that we won't be entering a team into the A-Championship if we're in the first division due to the cost. However if we're in the premier we would like to enter a team in the A-Championship.. this doesn't seem to bother the powers that be and it would appear we are being punished for playing by the rules. Regardless of who should be in what division, this should have been sorted by now - or at least don't fudge around with 'deadlines'.

Is it not part of licensing that if you are in the premier you are required to have a team in the A also?

[tonydaly]

It would be nice to see more follow Bray in speaking up and if Cork get their Premier licence hopefully the teams who met their criteria refuse to play Cork City.

If Cork get a licence it will be the end of any sort credibility left for the FAI. They didn't hesitate in fecking Ramblers in to the A Championship for less but I suppose that was alright because Ramblers are only a small club.

Are Cork being allowed play in Europe btw??

You & I know that if Cork City get a Premier license clubs will NOT refuse to play them because the clubs won't stick together,they never have in the past & they won't start now.
Credibility & FAI are not words to be used in the same sentence. I think a lot of fans are correct in thinking that this is being done for geographical reasons. I can't think of any other reason. Its not that they're in love with Tom Coughlan. I'm ashamed to say I'm from the same city as him.The entire affair has a very bad smell to it.