Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

**CSFShels** · 25/10/2009, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by micls

Can I ask what your basing this on?

No evidence at all. I just can't see a situation where he is left in charge next year. And if he isn't I'm sure the FAI will be more than happy to give a FORAS led Cork a Premier Licence, and its just wrong, because this is 2 seasons in a row where theres no way they've been compliant with the 65% rule.

**micls** · 25/10/2009, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by CSFShels

No evidence at all. I just can't see a situation where he is left in charge next year. And if he isn't I'm sure the FAI will be more than happy to give a FORAS led Cork a Premier Licence, and its just wrong, because this is 2 seasons in a row where theres no way they've been compliant with the 65% rule.

Unfortunately its a lot more complicated getting to the situation where thats even a possibility.

Coughlan wont leave without a payoff, the debts are growing on a constant basis and the club is ridiculously unsustainable. The leap from now to the same company being owned by FORAS for next season is just too big imo. We simply dont have enough money for that.

The only option where someone takes over this company io is an outsider coming in and taking over, possibly with FORAS involved in some form. But who would pay Coughlan what he's asking for to take on a shedload of debt? There were strong rumours that he turned down a 200k offer recently, Im surprised someone would even offer the langer that. Takeover rumours were very strong 2 weeks ago and have died off a little since so who knows really.

On the 65% thing, the only way that I can imagine we would comply with it is if Coughlan writes off the money he's claimed to put in. since he's asking for this money back though from anyone who wants to buy then I dont see how it can be counted for the cap so id imagine weve decimated it.

That said theres still a few wage bills to come, if he doesnt bother paying them do they count to teh 65%?

**dcfcsteve** · 26/10/2009, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by micls

Unfortunately its a lot more complicated getting to the situation where thats even a possibility.

Coughlan wont leave without a payoff, the debts are growing on a constant basis and the club is ridiculously unsustainable. The leap from now to the same company being owned by FORAS for next season is just too big imo. We simply dont have enough money for that.

The only option where someone takes over this company io is an outsider coming in and taking over, possibly with FORAS involved in some form. But who would pay Coughlan what he's asking for to take on a shedload of debt? There were strong rumours that he turned down a 200k offer recently, Im surprised someone would even offer the langer that. Takeover rumours were very strong 2 weeks ago and have died off a little since so who knows really.

On the 65% thing, the only way that I can imagine we would comply with it is if Coughlan writes off the money he's claimed to put in. since he's asking for this money back though from anyone who wants to buy then I dont see how it can be counted for the cap so id imagine weve decimated it.

That said theres still a few wage bills to come, if he doesnt bother paying them do they count to teh 65%?

The other option, of course, is to do a Limerick 37 : the FAI refuse Coughlan a license, and instead grant it to Foras-run Cork 84. The City players and staff, where desired, up sticks and join the new club. Coughlan is left with a financially fecked shell which he then has to put into administration. Foras then pick-up the Cork City name for a pittance from the Administrators, and switch back to City from Cork 84.

Bingo.

**A face** · 26/10/2009, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The other option, of course, is to do a Limerick 37 : the FAI refuse Coughlan a license, and instead grant it to Foras-run Cork 84. The City players and staff, where desired, up sticks and join the new club. Coughlan is left with a financially fecked shell which he then has to put into administration. Foras then pick-up the Cork City name for a pittance from the Administrators, and switch back to City from Cork 84.

Bingo.

Thats the scenario i was hoping for.

**tiktok** · 26/10/2009, 7:41 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The other option, of course, is to do a Limerick 37 : the FAI refuse Coughlan a license, and instead grant it to Foras-run Cork 84. The City players and staff, where desired, up sticks and join the new club. Coughlan is left with a financially fecked shell which he then has to put into administration. Foras then pick-up the Cork City name for a pittance from the Administrators, and switch back to City from Cork 84.

Bingo.

Of course that club, at best, would be an A Championship club. Limerick just popped back in where they'd exited.

**CSFShels** · 26/10/2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by tiktok

Of course that club, at best, would be an A Championship club. Limerick just popped back in where they'd exited.

Well that was fair at the time because there was no A Championship sides or anyone looking to take the spot. This time around you'd have alot of unhappy First Division or relegated Premier Division sides, and I don't think Kildare County would be too pleased to give up their First Division place to Cork either.

**dcfcsteve** · 26/10/2009, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by tiktok

Of course that club, at best, would be an A Championship club. Limerick just popped back in where they'd exited.

Very true.

But what's the alternative ? No club at all ? Going pop mid-season ?

In the immortal words of the Carlsberg ads, "They're not great options".....

**tiktok** · 26/10/2009, 3:04 PM

I've no problem with going down to the a championship, I'm just highlighting the facts before people get excited or outraged

**rambler14** · 26/10/2009, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by tiktok

I've no problem with going down to the a championship, I'm just highlighting the facts before people get excited or outraged

You should because it's the biggest sh!thouse of a league ever!

**tiktok** · 26/10/2009, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by rambler14

You should because it's the biggest sh!thouse of a league ever!

That might be the case this season, but with Cork City, Bohs and Derry there next season, It'll be the place to be!

**dcfcsteve** · 26/10/2009, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by tiktok

That might be the case this season, but with Cork City, Bohs and Derry there next season, It'll be the place to be!

Poor Shels might finally make it back into the big time next year - only to realise the big time's upped sticks and headed south in their absence....

**James** · 26/10/2009, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by tiktok

Of course that club, at best, would be an A Championship club. Limerick just popped back in where they'd exited.

nothing wrong with that
we'd have our club back!

**A face** · 26/10/2009, 11:28 PM

I can understand how Pats & Bray feel about us but I wonder if its a coincidence that both these clubs are in dire trouble so I take their comments with a pinch of salt. However what Ryan says in the article said is right on the ball, if it was any other club except Cork we would be dead all ready. Having said that you get punished only for what you do NOT what you nearly did. We weren't wound up so there is no punishment there, we did pay wages late so we should be punished for that along with our other discrepancies. Rovers did a knack a few years ago & they were docked 8 points which resulted in their relegation. They were not relegated for what they did,they were relegated because they didn't win enough points.

In all honesty we should be docked points as the way we have carried out our business this season is nothing short of a disgrace. However I think the FAI know that our problems are down to just one person so they may feel that to punish the club is not the way to deal with it. We should & will be docked points at the seasons end so therefore will not be in Europe next season which will be a good thing as we can't afford to go to Dublin let alone some far off distant country.

The FAI's way to deal with things will probably be to dock us points & refuse Coughlan a licence of any kind next season. However I have little faith in the way the FAI handles its business as their track record does not lend one to feel confident that they will get it right.

The League of Ireland in general is in a terrible state & if the FAI decide to punish every discrepancy there will be no Premier League next season as every club except Bray & Pats will be in the 1st Division. Maybe then Bray & Pats might actually win something. Also the idea of any relegated club taking us to court is just the journalist ****ing in the wind as its not going to happen.

This is a post from another forum, its in reply to an article and in bold above is a very good point. I know the buzzards are circling and most clubs would like to see us drop to the A but whatever punishment is given it has to be within realms of what is reasonable. People might be saying that they would like to see us dropped because the think we deserve it isn't good enough. We do deserve it, i'm not disputing that .... With TNB at the wheel we dont deserve to playing in the MSL in my opinion. But again, just because you aint happy with what is happening at city doesn't mean we should automatically be relegated.

Even though we do deserve it, i'll agree, and even though it should happen to improve the league overall, rewarding clubs who are doing it right, it still doesn't mean it will happen.

If i'm honest, City i think probably needs a year in the A Championship, to regroup and sort the whole mess out (hoping TNB id gone out of the picture)

**Ezeikial** · 27/10/2009, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by A face

I know the buzzards are circling and most clubs would like to see us drop to the A but whatever punishment is given it has to be within realms of what is reasonable. People might be saying that they would like to see us dropped because the think we deserve it isn't good enough. We do deserve it, i'm not disputing that .... With TNB at the wheel we dont deserve to playing in the MSL in my opinion

What do say that most clubs want Cork demoted to the A?

What evidence is there for that?- look again at what Richard Sadlier and Eddie Cox said.

You also recognise that being demoted to the A is deserved (so presumably within the realms of what is resonable)

For Cork City to be in Europe next year, according to St Patrick's Athletic CEO Richard Sadlier, "would be absolutely farcical"..

As Bray Wanderers' official Eddie Cox put it: "Nobody wishes Cork City any harm, but there has been obvious mis-management, the FAI brought in rules and they don't appear to be abiding by them. "

**fionnsci** · 27/10/2009, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by A face

If i'm honest, City i think probably needs a year in the A Championship, to regroup and sort the whole mess out (hoping TNB id gone out of the picture)

But it's not just a year in the A Championship, it's three years at best out of the Premier Division.

**gspain** · 27/10/2009, 7:53 AM

I don't know any football fans who want Cork out of football or down to the A championship.

I do know Pats (and most likely Bray and Drogheda) fans who feel they shouldn't be relegated because they followed the rules and you didn't.

I do think you should be docked points and not allowed into the Europa League. Ditto for Derry City.

**Dodge** · 27/10/2009, 9:00 AM

For the record, its hardly just those clubs in relegation trouble who have been calling for the rules to be enforced.

In fact I'm fairly certain plenty of Cork fans have said that the FAI should follow the licensing rules a little closer

**EalingGreen** · 27/10/2009, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

I do think you should be docked points and not allowed into the Europa League. Ditto for Derry City.

But how many points? If you look at the Football League and Conference in England, the points deduction scale is so severe that it is often the same thing as relegation.

Which might seem draconian, but because it is clear-cut, no one can accuse them of "rigging" the points penalty so as to "save" some favoured clubs, but relegate other, less favoured clubs.

**gspain** · 27/10/2009, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

But how many points? If you look at the Football League and Conference in England, the points deduction scale is so severe that it is often the same thing as relegation.

Which might seem draconian, but because it is clear-cut, no one can accuse them of "rigging" the points penalty so as to "save" some favoured clubs, but relegate other, less favoured clubs.

In the football league the penalties have varied from 10 points to up to 30 I believe.

Although this has meant no automatic promotion for Leeds there have been cases where it has had no real effect.

It is worse here though in that the possible deductions could happen after the season.

Even if no points deduction happens it is hard to see Cork (or indeed Derry) get a licence for next season in either the premier or first division. However they may not be the only ones.

**WoodquayBoy** · 27/10/2009, 2:11 PM

I could be wrong, but I thought it was spelled out to clubvs at the start of the year what the penalties were, and in black and white as well - not just 'a points deduction' but from what I believe, clubs were told 'a xx points deduction'. Can anyone here clarify that? Were clubds told EXACTLY what punishments were in line for breach of licence terms?