QuoteMy only answer to this would be we're not english and out tabloids aren't that bad, yet!
Seems to be something (especially in here) that happens a lot. We seem to always over rate our players and we get all precious then when others dont agree!
Take the following examples
We thought Shay Given was in the top 3 keepers in the world, no one else did/does. Cue cries of indignation when ever people put Van Der Sar/Cech etc ahead of him. If he was THAT good why did no top club ever show an interest?
We thought Damien Duff was world class! He spent 2 years doing well at Chelsea and was deemed surplus to requirements and gotten rid of. Now when he should be at his peak he is preparing for life in english footballs second tier
Some here would tell you Richard Dunne is John Terrys equal!! Again, no one outside Ireland would agree and with City looking to get rid, he is being linked with the likes of Sunderland!!!
Andy Reid, some of ye see him as the missing link that will make us a real team again......shame no one told Roy Keane/Ricky Sbragia/Martin Jol/Ramos that. They cant see it!
At one stage some of ye thought Steve Finnan was of to Inter Milan and Gary Breen was going to Barca!!!
And dare anyone suggest otherwise.......
My only answer to this would be we're not english and out tabloids aren't that bad, yet!
You're a WUM
All supporters/fans of all clubs and all countries will over-rate their players, it's a fact of life if you are more familiar with something you will value it above something you're less familiar with.
why am I am wum !! see this is what I am talkign about....dare anyone go against the grain in here, and your a Wum!!! What a joke! Do we all have to believe what you believe!!!
Nope. Given is world class and recognised as such by everyone in the game right now.
Duff was world class and 1m European voters thought so by putting him in the UEFA team of the year at his peak.
18 months ago it seemed Dunne was getting man of the match on English telly every time I saw him. He was actually Sky Sports MOTM in Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, Anfield and Highbury in 1 season! His partnership with Distin is the reason Man City were never relegated and that's without doubt. And for 2 seasons in a row he had way more bonus points than any defender in the fantasy football which is judged by ex-pro's who I assume would be mainly English.
A.Reid has been class in the premiership when playing centrally. Below average playing anywhere else. It's as simple as that for me. Something must have changed last summer because he went from playing centrally every game for 4 months and doing superbly under Keane to playing every 2nd game and playing on the left wing. I also think playing him 120 minutes in a league cup game when he was subbed in most league games said a lot. He looks to have changed his ways this summer.
Finnan to Inter? I don't remember that link but he played at Liverpool. I don't see what you're saying, unless Inter are a much bigger club because they're from Italy.
And I don't think any of us overrated Breen. You'd be doing well to find an Irish person with a straight face after hearing that Barca rumour.
Our players have set standards. £17m standards and Man Utd standards. I think we can judge our players off those standards.
We judge our players by watching them at least 5 times a year at club level. That's a lot more than the average English person will see of our players. I'd say over 90% of people's opinion is based on media and word of mouth.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 30/07/2009 at 10:49 AM.
Gary Breen to BarcelonaI remember it well!
Spot on An Ceannaire. Just look back a few weeks ago when Doyle signed for Wolves. People on here were saying Arsenal should have signed him! The same with Dunne. People are saying he's to good for Sunderland. No his not! Reid is another. He'll struggle to get in to the Sunderland XI this season. Specially if Cattermole signs. But in saying that they have a point about Given. Just look at Citeh's form since he signed. I'm very surprise a top 4 club didn't sign him.
But what do I know? I've been telling everyone that Lorik Cana is one of the best midfielders in Europe and Bohs should be look for £400,000 for Gary Deegan and €1m for Brian Murphy!
As Arsene Wenger once said 'Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home'.
I'll assume your directing that at me. My point was we haven't got any where near the point of over exaggerating the skill and talent of our best players as the English and their tabloids have, best examples are before any cup tournament.Originally Posted by lionelhutz
What about Mark Kinsella to Barcelona?!
Billy Clarke to Liverpool?!!
There is an element of truth in this thread though we do tend to overrate our players and get precious when people have a go at them. Most smaller countries do to be fair.
I remember the NI commentator (Jackie Fullerton?) referring to David Healy as "truely world class" at a time when he couldn't get in the Fulham team
Last edited by endabob1; 30/07/2009 at 11:20 AM.
We've got some very good players and some decidedly mediocre ones. Simple as that. I don't know any Irish fan who thinks otherwise.
Is Joleon Lescott an 18m pound player while Dunne is only a 2-5m pound player, or St. Ledger a 4m pound player? Who is overrated in that example?
Football fans are allowed to be a bit less than objective anyway, but I know very few Irish fans who are downright deluded.
With regard to emerging young players I'd say most are hopeful - an educated guess in some instances - rather than 100% confident they'll come good. nothing wrong with that.
I liked the look of O'Dea last week, but thought Willo Flood was awful at protecting the ball in central midfield last Friday. I'd like to be able to turn a blind eye to that but I don't. It's called objectivity.
I really like this website as I need it to get any Irish player news at all but I get the feeling some people dont watch other sports to understand how things work in that world, and they dont know much about Soccer.
When ever anyone scores they will have their thread moved up and it will be like wow, so and so with a goal today vs Birmingham. Yeah, nice one. Maybe Trap should look at him? Then you will not see or hear about the guy for 4 months.....
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
The thing is if we overrate our players then we're overrating the teams they play in and the league they play in. Because when I watch our players we also watch the players he's playing alongside. If he's the best performer in the team he's the best performer in the team.
Richard Dunne hasn't been great for Man City the last 18 months. We all know that. But I think you're very fickle if you judge him on that period because he is clearly as good as ever. As John Giles said, people should be looking at his team for the problem when you see him play like he has been for Ireland. I can understand Man City fans thinking he's not as good as he used to be but not the Ireland fans who've seen him this campaign.
I said both of these things.
My simple view is that Doyle is better than Bendtner who plays for Arsenal quite regularly. He's not a patch on Van Persie or Adebayor though. Dunne is better than any CB at Arsenal, bar Gallas maybe, but Gallas blows hot & cold. CB has been a glaring weak spot in Arsenal's team for a long time. Arsenal lack maturity, character, leadership and physicality in certain areas. Both those Irish players have great attitudes. They'd be relatively cheap and good business for a club operating on a budget and whose squad has been stretched very thin by regular injuries to their better players. If Arsenal had pots of money they could do a lot better.
I agree completely. Shay Given is our only top class player. Just below him you would have Dunne & Keane. After that the rest of them are average footballers of much the same standard.
The whole Andy Reid farce is a perfect example. He is an overweight player who struggled to get a game for a mediocre Sunderland team last season that only just survived in the EPL, yet our media/fans hype him up as this super footballer who should be one of the first names on the teamsheet!!!
Personally I also believe the whole expectation of the fans/media around the Irish team is ridiculous. We are an average side. John O'Shea will be the only player playing in the Champions League & most of our players are now playing for teams in the bottom half of the EPL or The Championship.
Trappatoni gets stick for his tactics, but with the limited ability of the players available for selection this is the best way for the team to get results.
Last edited by wexfordned; 30/07/2009 at 11:33 AM.
You make a fair point, but while a lot of fans may go over-board with hype, several current Irish players are top-class.
Shay Given was recently bought by the richest club in the world, who presumably wish to be challenging for trophies. They clearly have the money to sign the likes of Cech or Van der Sar, so why didn't they?Take the following examples
We thought Shay Given was in the top 3 keepers in the world, no one else did/does. Cue cries of indignation when ever people put Van Der Sar/Cech etc ahead of him. If he was THAT good why did no top club ever show an interest?
Damien Duff was world class. He's had a tough time with injury and going to Newcastle was probably his biggest mistake, especially when Liverpool and Spurs were looking for him.We thought Damien Duff was world class! He spent 2 years doing well at Chelsea and was deemed surplus to requirements and gotten rid of. Now when he should be at his peak he is preparing for life in english footballs second tier
Richard Dunne on his day is one of the best centre-backs in the English Premiership, which is arguably the best league in the world.Some here would tell you Richard Dunne is John Terrys equal!! Again, no one outside Ireland would agree and with City looking to get rid, he is being linked with the likes of Sunderland!!!
Andy Reid has never been world class.Andy Reid, some of ye see him as the missing link that will make us a real team again......shame no one told Roy Keane/Ricky Sbragia/Martin Jol/Ramos that. They cant see it!
To be fair, Steve Finnan was part of the Liverpool team that won and finished runners-up in the Champions' League. He clearly has (had?) credentials.At one stage some of ye thought Steve Finnan was of to Inter Milan and Gary Breen was going to Barca!!!
Truth is, we, as a nation have a bit of an inherent inferiority complex. Why can't Irish players be world-class?
Over the years this wee island has produced many a fine athlete and soccer-wise, you only have to look at the likes of Roy Keane and Liam Brady to realise there is a pedigree of sorts.
And my response to this is
''Ireland have better players than Inter Milan''
Its easier for English media to hype up their players when you know they include players at the top tier of European football playing in Champions League every year.
About Finnan, he played for Liverpool who I don't know who is the bigger team them or Inter but Liverpool are definetly the better team and Finnan was one of the best right backs in England before he was dropped for Arbeloa.
ALL fans overrate their own players.
Except me.
Seriously though, I think an_ceannaire has a valid point. Otherwise, if it was obvious exactly how good (or otherwise) a player really is, why would fans of rival teams spend so much time in pubs and Message Boards etc arguing over it?
In the end, the best teams are the ones which win the most games and they do so because they have the best players. So if you want to see how "good" a player really is, see how he and his team is doing.
Perhaps a good case in point is Damien Duff - he must have been excellent when he was starring for Chelsea, but he can't really be that good now, or he wouldn't be stuck at Newcastle.
Note: When talking about "his" team, for some reason which I can't really fathom, sometimes players shine for their club team, but not for their international team (or vice versa). Which is why eg David Healy looked genuinely "world class" when scoring a hattrick against Spain on his way to breaking Davor Suker's European Championships goal record, but has looked a bit of a pudding both at Fulham and Sunderland.
[QUOTE=wexfordned;1202273]I agree completely. Shay Given is our only top class player. Just below him you would have Dunne & Keane. After that the rest of them are average footballers of much the same standard.
The whole Andy Reid farce is a perfect example. He is an overweight player who struggled to get a game for a mediocre Sunderland team last season that only just survived in the EPL, yet our media/fans hype him up as this super footballer who should be one of the first names on the teamsheet!!!
Personally I also believe the whole expectation of the fans/media around the Irish team is ridiculous. We are an average side. John O'Shea will be the only player playing in the Champions League & most of our players are now playing for teams in the bottom half of the EPL or The Championship.
Trappatoni gets stick for his tactics, but with the limited ability of the players available for selection this is the best way for the team to get results.
To be fair, I don't think most people here overated Andy Reid. They just question why he can't get in the squad ahead of some of those in it.
Given is world class and is not overated. Robbie Keane, while maybe short of World class is not overated.(and what I regard as "world class" for a striker would be Torres. I would rank Keane as good as, if not better than the likes of Tevez,Agbonlahor,Carew
O'Shea is, in my opinion totally underrated and Richard Dunne needs to put a bad season behind him
Those that have been totally overated after one or two good performances: McShane, Glenn Whelan,Stephen Hunt, Gary Breen,
Yeah I agree for that campaign at least David Healy was world class.
I think Shay Given is our truely world class player now.
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