QuoteI'm sure I've seen a St. Patrick's Cross (red saltire on white background) used to represent the pre-partition team somewhere, but that may be a retrospective convention.
to represent the IFA team post-1921 and pre-1950 when it was still organised on an All Ireland basis. Any help or evidence appricated.
I'm sure I've seen a St. Patrick's Cross (red saltire on white background) used to represent the pre-partition team somewhere, but that may be a retrospective convention.
A leading authority on League of Ireland football since 2003. You're probably wrong.
I would hazard a guess at the Union Flag but no evidence for this other than it would have been the country's official flag.
I would have thought so too, but as David points out, it's never had official status there.Originally Posted by Sheridan
You can't spell failure without FAI
Interesting question. Tbh, despite our near-obsession with flags in NI(!), I'm not sure there will have been any flag flown to represent the IFA (officially, at least).
David's guess at the Union Flag might seem plausible, except that during the period in question, the IFA only played British Championship games versus Eng/Scot/Wales, therefore the UF would have been a bit pointless, seeing as it is just as representative of their opponents as the IFA. Perhaps the UF only was flown at all British Championship matches?
Anyhow, the IFA were not members of FIFA until just after WWII, nor entrants into the World Cup, so there was no need to demonstrate their individual identity to anyone outside the UK.
And the NI flag (more properly known as the "Ulster Banner") was not devised until 1953.
Curiously enough, I think I read read recently that the IFA adopted a shirt badge incorporating shamrocks (around 1930?), in order to re-emphasise their (All-)Ireland credentials vis-a-vis the FAIFS. Not unlike the current Ireland Rugby shirt badge, iirc this was v.similar to the FAIFS badge. I can find out for sure, if you like.
Having said all that, I strongly suspect that Linfield flew the UF over Windsor during that period (they certainly do today) - it might not have been taken down for NI/Ireland games of the time.
Currently, the only flags flown at NI games are the NI flag, the national flag of the visitors, and the UEFA or FIFA flag for European Championship or World Cup games.
But the IFA saw itself as representing Ireland and not just Northern Ireland during the said time period. The IFA wasn't offically part of FIFA during those years either so perhaps the issue of a flag was never an issue - ie the IFA team was more of an exhibition team and, as such, did not necessarily need a flag.
Last edited by ifk101; 23/07/2009 at 10:19 AM.
The IFA wasn't a member of FIFA full stop (i.e. officially or unofficially).
Covered in my earlier post.
"Exhibition"? Actually, Ireland were founder members of the World's oldest international competition, the British ("Home") Championship.
Indeed the IFA staged the world's first ever competitive international football match, in Belfast in January 1884 versus Scotland*.
* - I'd appreciate if you didn't enquire about the score...
While the British Home Championship would be considered an international competition in the present day, during the 1920s up to the 1950s it was a domestic competition. This is because none of the British teams were members the governing body FIFA during this time and, as such, not recognised as international football teams. As the British Home Championship was in effect a competition between domestic "home" regions/nations, there perhaps was no need for the IFA team to be represented by a flag.
Are you trying to say that when eg in 1923, England played Belgium home and away, France away and Sweden away (twice) that these are not recognised as full internationals, with caps awarded to both teams etc, because England were not a subscribing member of FIFA?
Utter Garbage!
http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/eng-intres20.html
Think Basque Country and Catalonia if it's difficult for you to understand.
Balls! FIFA recognises the "Home" Countries as having established international football during the last three decades of the 19th Century:Think Basque Country and Catalonia if it's difficult for you to understand.
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/...toryfifa1.html
"When the idea of founding an international football federation began taking shape in Europe, the intention of those involved was to recognise the role of the English who had founded their Football Association back in 1863. Hirschman, secretary of the Netherlands Football Association, turned to the Football Association. Its secretary, FJ Wall, did accept the proposal but progress stalled while waiting for the Executive Committee of the Football Association, the International FA Board and the associations of Scotland, Wales and Ireland to give their opinion about the matter"
Or are you claiming that international football only existed post-1904?
You'll be sourcing events in 12th Century China next ....
No.Or are you claiming that international football only existed post-1904?
so is it safe to say that there is no conclusive proof either way that a flag on any description was used either in an official or unofficial capacity?
(Originally Posted by EalingGreen)
"FIFA recognises the 'Home' Countries as having established international football during the last three decades of the 19th Century"
Why would I do that?I'm quite happy with FIFA's own website as authority for what I'm saying.
(Originally Posted by EalingGreen)
"Or are you claiming that international football only existed post-1904?"
Therefore if international football matches were played pre-1904 and were recognised as such by FIFA, then such matches are as "official" as any other, including international competitive fixtures between the four "home" nations in the British Championship?No.
That's about the height of it(!), though if I had to plump for something, I'd guess that "David" got it right in post #3 (above).
I don't know re the flag.
I need to confirm with the Malcolm Brodie book but the IFA did play games other than British championship during the period.
They toured Norway in 1922 and played 2 games at least 1 was always recognized as a full International. They also played in France around that time.
They played South Africa in 1924 which is considered a full International by South Africa and was reclassified as such by the IFA in the past 10 years.
In 1947 the 4 home nations bailed out FIFA by playing a game at Hampden - a joint team met the Rest of Europe - our Johnny Carey captained the rest of Europe. Part of the deal has involved a permanent vice president of FIFA for the home nations.
Good points, Gspain. If you've not already seen it, I'm sure you'll find the following from JCD's (excellent) Blog to be both comprehensive and reliable:
http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...nationals.html
P.S. Re. the UK vs Rest of Europe game in 1947, Johnny Carey could also be argued to be "ours" (i.e. NI's), just as you have a claim to "our" Jackie 'Sausage' Vernon, who was in opposition to Carey that day:
http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...nny-carey.html
http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...ie-vernon.html
Last edited by EalingGreen; 06/08/2009 at 1:42 PM.
ealing green what's you take on creating an all ireland team now is there steadfast opposition to it in the protestant community ?
I'm ready to listen, the moment the FAI realises its mistake and applies to come back into the loving arms of the Irish Football Association - "Original and (George) Best"
Nothing personal, TS, but with my history on this Board, if I were to even to start to answer that point, I'd not only have the thread closed quicker than you can type "Dahamsta", but I might even be putting the entire Board in peril!
P.S. I wouldn't dream of asking you to trawl through my previous posts on such matters - you've never done me any harm! - but if you're really interested, pm me and I might reply if/when I get time.
I'm sure the FAI is content with the eligibility of its position as Ireland's football association.I'm ready to listen, the moment the FAI realises its mistake and applies to come back into the loving arms of the Irish Football Association - "Original and (George) Best"
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