Lansdowne Road Redevelopment Thread

[Cowboy]

I agree, will certainly motivate them and if project goes ahead as planned the bond is a non issue. Anyone know what the problems with the project are, the radio news was not specific on this?

[pete]

Any chance on the government providing a similar bond to the FAI to guarantee they don't change thier mind again after the Bertie Bowl fiasco?

[A face]

IRFU / FAI Confirm Lansdowne Stadium Project on Schedule
21st September 2005


The IRFU/ FAI confirmed that their redevelopment of Lansdowne Road Stadium is on schedule to lodge a planning application by the end of the year. The organisations also expect to be in a position to reveal the conceptual design for the new stadium within a month.

The Steering Group set up by the Government to oversee the project whose membership comprises of representatives of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, the Department of Finance and the OPW as well as representatives of the IRFU and the FAI met today to receive a progress report on the development of the new stadium project.


Read more at www.lrsdc.ie

[thejollyrodger]

IRFU / FAI Confirm Lansdowne Stadium Project on Schedule

oh the lies, the lies

[Cowboy]

oh the lies, the lies

I agree, even at this stage I hear on the grapevine there has had to be some major design changes.

[thejollyrodger]

Plus the cost over run which the FAIlure muppets sent to all the journos by mistake. What a balls this whole thing is. Plus the capacity is tiny

[Qwerty]

I think 50000 is more than adequate for Irish football, and the IRFU will be the principals so the FAI won't be given too much rope...

[thejollyrodger]

85,000 would be a better figure when you are trying to get tickets for a World Cup game.

Just minus about 10,000 seats from that 50,000 for all the suits.

Feck, do I hate the FAIlure.

[Bald Student]

To be fair to the FAI (not a phrase you hear very often) the project isn't over budget. The stadium has been re-designed and the changes are supposed to pay for themselves.

Personally I'm not a big fan of corporate supporters either but if you're going to spend this ammount of money on a new ground there's only one way to pay for it. I think the system in Croke Park is as good as it gets. There's a set number of seats seperate from us normal folk where the corporates sit and eat their sandwiches or whatever. The rest of us can get on with supporting the team without having to put up with Billy-no-Atmosphear sitting behind us. If the stadium leaves us with 40,000 tickets for real fans and 10,000 money spinning seats that's still a huge improvement on the current situation.

[Poor Student]

To be fair to the FAI (not a phrase you hear very often)

You've been spending too much time with those FAI bigwigs.

[jbyrne]

I agree, even at this stage I hear on the grapevine there has had to be some major design changes.

so what if there has? that is the way all large construction projects go as costs and design details are ironed out. the initial design by ARUP was only to show that a 50,000 seater stadium was feasable on the site. the new designers will have their own ideas and the design was always going to change. also, they have been talking to residents in the area about their plans and the issues that have come out of those discussions are probably now being incorporated into the design and will result in an easier path to getting planning permission. no big deal at all and people should start to believe in this project.. it will happen

[Cowboy]

so what if there has? that is the way all large construction projects go as costs and design details are ironed out. the initial design by ARUP was only to show that a 50,000 seater stadium was feasable on the site. the new designers will have their own ideas and the design was always going to change. also, they have been talking to residents in the area about their plans and the issues that have come out of those discussions are probably now being incorporated into the design and will result in an easier path to getting planning permission. no big deal at all and people should start to believe in this project.. it will happen

I admire your optimism but bear in mind that the govt is now looking for a performance bond which would lead one to believe they are not entirely confident. The design changes if I understood correctly related to the orientation of the stadium which is pretty major element I think you will agree and should have been factored in well before now.

I do hope you are right though I would not wish any delays or overruns to hamper our new home.

[elroy]

It better happen, saw a piece the other day that the Swiss game could be the last ever competitive game at LR as we know it. I'll def miss something about the place, ya its falling apart but it has something very special about it. However a revamp is badly needed.
I think 50K is adequate but in an ideal world for the big games we should play in croker, likewise for the gaa games where they would expect 40-50k (the vast majority) could be played in LR.
Why not? at the end of the day it would benefit all parties, anyone whos being to croker when theres only about 30-40K will know it suffers badly atmosphere wise and security costs are unnecessarily higher.

[Superhoops]

......I would not wish any delays or overruns to hamper our new home.

The latest announcement by the LRDB indicates that they are on target for the application for planning permission to be submitted before the end of this year. They are expecting construction to commence in 2007 and for the project to take 27 months to complete. Even if work commenced early in 2007, it would not be completed until mid-2009 at earliest.

We will commence qualification for Euro 2008 in the autumn of 2006 and this will run until autumn 2007. What is not clear at this stage is whether the autumn ECQ games of 2006 will be played at LR with the remainder being played at CP or where ever. Similarly, will the IRFU want to play all of their 2007 Six Nations away from LR, if construction does not start early that year.

Similary if the project starts and finishes on time, say mid-2009, will we want our first games at the new stadium to be the last two and probably all-important 2010 WCQ's, without ever having played a game there? (It is certain that we will play our early home 2010 WCQualifiers at CP or wherever). It could be early 2010 before we play at our new home, assuming the stadium project is on time.

[thejollyrodger]

New Lansdowne stadium project to spark massive planning battle
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=13144

THE mother of all planning battles will kick off next week when the design for the new €358m Lansdowne Road is officially unveiled.

According to a number of sources, the East and West stands in the new stadium will be higher than at present, because of more premium and corporate box seats. The new stadium will not be a "bowl" design but the 50,000 capacity all-seater will be covered.

Although the design tries to take account of the concerns of residents in the Havelock Square and O'Connell Gardens area, backing on to the North Terrace, by minimising the "shadow" impact, both ends will be higher than the present uncovered stands. The key issues will centre on the overall height and design of the stadium, especially its impact at the North Terrace end.

Last April Taoiseach Bertie Ahern stunned the IRFU and FAI when he cast doubt on whether the new Lansdowne will ever be built because of potential planning problems it faces.

"I will have my doubts until the day it opens because I just think it is in a very built up area," he said. Sports Minister John O'Donoghue will launch the new design on Monday and the project team are ready to lodge the planning application in December.

The cost of the stadium has risen by about €65m from the original €292m when it was announced last year.

This additional cost is primarily because the number of premium seats has increased from 8,000 to 10,000 and there will also be a further 1,400 seats in corporate boxes. The extra €65m cost will be shared equally by the FAI and the IRFU. It was intended the IRFU would contribute €68m with the FAI putting in €33m. That will now rise to €100m for the IRFU and €66m for the FAI.

But for both the FAI and IRFU extra premium seats will prove a long-term money spinner. The Government has said it will commit €192m towards the cost of building the stadium and, more recently, it sought a €20m bond from the FAI and IRFU to protect the State's interest.

Brian Dowling
Political Correspondent

The Design of the new stadium is going to be realised next week but as the indo says its not going to be a bowl stadium. It might be one ugly stadium with a poor atmosphere

Even if they do figure out a nice design, it will be a tough task to push it through the planning regulation in this country.

LRSDC -> http://www.lrsdc.ie/home/default.asp

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

I've seen the plans for the new stadium as I was working on the Lansdowne project for 3-4 months. I think people will be quite happy when they see the design. Space, or the lack of it, was the key factor regarding the new design. The degree to which the new Lansdowne can be developed is restricted as it is obviously not a greenfield site. It is true that the new east and west stands will be dominant. It would be impossible to develop stands of a similar size at either the north or south ends of the ground, due to the lack of space. I quite like the design as it will create a modern stadium that maintains the classic attributes of Lansdowne Road. In some ways, it will be a typical British-style stadium, and although it is not a bowl, the predominance of the roof will help generate a great atmosphere.

I think there has been a general recognition in recent years that greenfield stadium developments are not as successful as was originally presumed. The necessay development of ancillary services, as well as the promotion of vehicular use, has made stadium developments on sites such as Abbotstown, a costly process, not just in financial terms. In contrast, stadium developments within the urban core, help to maintain the vibrancy of the area, as well as promoting more sustainable modes of transport. We should consider ourselves lucky that within the next few years we will have two modern stadia within a 20 minute walk of the city centre. A number of European cities have lost that in recent years, with out-of-town developments.

Perhaps the greatest concern regarding the planning process will be the height of the east stand towards the Havelock Square end of the ground. The top tier of the current east stand does not run the full length of the pitch. This was due to concerns expressed by local residents that it would block the natural height to their houses. I can't remember off-hand when the east stand was built, but I think it was the 1970s? It is my opinion that this concern regarding natural light will again emerge as the major stumbling block for the new Lansdowne Road. Concerns over disruption to the DART services will not be as much of a problem as initially foreseen. It is my information that the difficulties surrounding the DART are sufficiently dealt with in the Environmental Impact Statement to be submitted with the planning application.

The local residents will certainly offer the strongest opposition to the Lansdowne project. I'm expecting a long and protracted process and wouldn't be surprised if the planning authority isuue a request to respond to Further Information, thereby delaying the process further.

[thejollyrodger]

thanks for the post T.J.P.M!! Is there any examples of what it is going to look like ? I hope it is more continental than british. The stadia in portugal are fantastic.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

I can't think of another similar stadium design. As mentioned earlier, the relatively small land holding placed huge restrictions on the type of stadium that could be designed. I'm aware of a thesis completed in UCD a few years ago which suggested that nearby Ringsend Park was the most suitable site in Dublin for the development of a new stadium. However, it is clear that the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road emerged as the preferred choice of both the FAI and IRFU, after the failures of Eircom Park and Abbotstown. Indeed, Eircom Park, with a capacity of approximately 45,000 would have been more of a Dutch design.

With regard to Lansdowne, the two main stands either side of the field will dominate the new design. However, the stands behind the two goal-ends are integrated well in the overall stadium. The design adopts certain aspects of a continental stadium. Nonetheless, its compact nature would lead me to believe that it is more of a British-style. I think this may be positive in terms of creating a good atmosphere. Lansdowne will be a tight stadium (similar to Basel in that regard) and could be very intimidating for opposing teams. I would consider Croke Park to be a more southern hemisphere-type stadium and feel this has taken away from the atmosphere. Croke Park is quite open, which leads to much of the noise being lost. Furthermore, the Hogan and Cusack stands on either side of the field are so far from each other that there is little interaction between the spectators in the respective stands. This leads to pockets of noise in parts of the stadium, with silence in other parts.

I agree that the stadia in Portugal are fantastic, especially the Estadio da Luz. These stadia were predominantly developed along motorways with large areas of open space surrounding them. The stadia in Lisbon and Oporto are spectacular. However, if you think the redevelopment of Lansdowne is hampered by space, its worth taking a look at the stadium in Braga. It was practically built in the mountains, with a cliff-face behind the goals! Some of the stadia already built for next year's World Cup are excellent. Out of the 12 stadia to be used for the World Cup, 10 could be considered enclosed bowl-type designs. Nonetheless, a bowl-type design is not always the best form of stadium. Take for example the Estadio Algarve which hosted games in Euro 2004 or Stadium Australia which hosted probably the best Olympics ever in 2000. Although there is a huge difference in capacity, both of these have dominant stands on either side with open seating at the ends, which create a great atmosphere.

[thejollyrodger]

very intresting stuff T.J.P.M. I agree with what you say about Croker. Its so big and yet the crowd is quite most of the time.


I just hope that the new lansdowne road will not look like a typical anglo saxon design with square edges that are very unpleasing to the eye. I think there are plans to having a TV screen in the stadium as well

[eirebhoy]

The stand behind Havelock Square is the south stand. How does the east stand affect light in Havelock square?