TEEU strike

[OneRedArmy]

The union have applied to ICTU to picket nationwide.

This will be a particularly important dispute, with other unions like the IBOA waiting to see what the appetite is for industrial action in the current climate (by union members, employers and the wider public).

What is clear is that both sides are so far apart that quick resolution looks impossible.

[Mr A]

Do these guys really think an 11% pay rise is justified in the current climate?

Seriously.. WTF?

[centre mid]

Their argument is that this was a pay award that has been delayed for over 2 years and its being suggested that they should be taking a 10% pay cut, so in effect they are taking a 21% pay cut (in a round about way). I doubt there will be public support for them tbh. Its one thing when you see nurses on a picket line but sparks, I'm not so sure.

[Macy]

Terrible timing, whatever the merits of the case (I'd be more inclined to trust anyone other than Tom Parlon anyway).

The union say the contractors invoiced their customers on the basis of the new rates from the time they were supposed to be paying them, but never actually paid the electricians at those rates. The employers won't even talk, so it could be a long one.

ICTU will take a few weeks to issue an all out, afaik. They'll be seeing what the support is first.

One general comment about this, the "sure aren't they lucky to have a job" arguement is really wrecking my head. Everyone might as well work for a fiver an hour if it's all about having a feckin job! Everyone line up for the race to the bottom...

[OneRedArmy]

The secondary picketing outside the construction industry is particularly worrying as these members aren't in dispute. Striking and picketing for solidarity is very tough on the manufacturing sector which is not in great shape anyway.

Would agree that the CIF shouldn't escape criticism for letting it drag on for 3 years.

[Macy]

The secondary picketing outside the construction industry is particularly worrying as these members aren't in dispute. Striking and picketing for solidarity is very tough on the manufacturing sector which is not in great shape anyway.

I'm not sure there is secondary picketing going on - work isn't being shifted to other premises to avoid pickets is it (afaik anyway)? They're only picketing the places that they are employed in (which isn't just construction).

[Dodge]

I pass by Guinness' most mornings. There was a picket there yesterday but none today. There was a Garda van though

Any idea whats happening there?


EDIT: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking2.html

Drinks company Diageo secured a temporary High Court injunction to prevent picketing at its plant in Dublin which it said could restrict the supply of Guinness and place jobs at risk.

[OneRedArmy]

I'm not sure there is secondary picketing going on - work isn't being shifted to other premises to avoid pickets is it (afaik anyway)? They're only picketing the places that they are employed in (which isn't just construction).

I'm defining secondary as striking and picketing at sites where the employees aren't subject to the registered agreement in question and aren't in dispute with their employer.

[Macy]

I was going on the definition as allowed in the act, as I would be surprised if any union would partake in action outside of that and risk being sued. I guess the full hearing of the Guinness injunction will clear it up!

[Dodge]

Parlon as contrite and diplomatic as ever

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0707/electricians.html

'we cannot let the lunatics be in charge'.

[anto1208]

I dont know much about it but to me it seems that the contractors included this rise in their costs for any works ongoing, mainly large contruction jobs like Landsdown where the deals would have been signed a few years ago and they would have recieved this money from the clients in which case it should be passed on rather than keeping it for themselves.

At the same time contractors going for jobs now should be able to reasonably expect a reduction in costs for electritions as the vast majority of costs/wages are coming down so clients expect jobs to be completed for a lot less.

Perhaps something as simple as setting a date lets say for ease Jan 09 and any contracts signed before that which include the rise in wages should be honoured and any contracts signed after Jan 09 or in the future could use a lower rate to be agreed between the two groups.

[Macy]

'we cannot let the lunatics be in charge'.

Too feckin late for the farmers, pd's, opw, cif....

[Mr A]

I would have some sympathy here if they just fought the proposed reduction in their wages on the basis that promised increases were never paid but any idea of actually securing the 11% increase is outrageously stupid in the current climate.

I just hope their actions don't end up costing more jobs, and there must be plenty of out of work electricians round the country wondering what the hell it's all about.

[Macy]

I would have some sympathy here if they just fought the proposed reduction in their wages on the basis that promised increases were never paid but any idea of actually securing the 11% increase is outrageously stupid in the current climate.

Lest it's forgotten, the contractors were paid on the basis of the 11% increase, they just didn't pass it on. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the solution is a freeze at current wages with a pay off on the money owed or something similar.

tbh I think it's the contractors playing the hardball here rather than the union - the employers know that the media will support them (and some of the coverage has been ridiculously bias imo)

[Lionel Ritchie]

Just listening on the radio this morning as the reporter struggled to explain the confused, internacine nature of the some of the other parties inside and outside talks and negotiations would give you migraine.

It reminded me of a popular story from some years ago the gist of which was there were more Unions representing workers in Iarnrod Eireann or Bus Eireann than represented the entire German workforce.

They need more than one kind of umbrella today.

[Macy]

It reminded me of a popular story from some years ago the gist of which was there were more Unions representing workers in Iarnrod Eireann or Bus Eireann than represented the entire German workforce.

I thought it was the employers side that was splitting into (apparently) different groups? The union has stuck to it's guns, and gone about things properly attending the LRC - the employers side has elements running to the four courts trying to block a negotiated outcome. Was the whole dispute engineered to try and bring down the registered agreement and facilitate the race to the bottom?

[Lionel Ritchie]

I thought it was the employers side that was splitting into (apparently) different groups? The union has stuck to it's guns, and gone about things properly attending the LRC - the employers side has elements running to the four courts trying to block a negotiated outcome. Was the whole dispute engineered to try and bring down the registered agreement and facilitate the race to the bottom?

Like I said ...it was pretty confusing

Though it does make some of the commentary make more sense.

[Mr A]

According to the Irish Times the talks are centring around a raise of 4.9%.

That would be an incredible result at a time like this and would worry me that more Unions would be motivated to demand raises which isn't going to do our national competitiveness any good at all.

[Macy]

Though it does make some of the commentary make more sense.

I wouldn't claim to be the most "in the know" source, but it's hard to get through bias bullcrap that has been in the media all week.

For example, I've given up on Lunchtime on Newstalk after their total bias on Tuesday (I think it was) when they let Fergal Quinn rant on unchallenged for 10 minutes against the electricians in particular and workers in general, after they'd been in full on attack mode on the TEEU guy. It wasn't Keane presenting, but that tool they always have sat in for him (Keogh?). Very obvious in recent days that it is most definitely "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

That would be an incredible result at a time like this and would worry me that more Unions would be motivated to demand raises which isn't going to do our national competitiveness any good at all.

It wouldn't be that great, considering what they're owed and for how long! That the employers side have taken the pay decrease off the table and are negotiating a pay increase shows that the electricians had a valid case for all the bs in the media as referenced above.

And just a btw, wages isn't our only (I'd say not even our main) competitive disadvantage.

[green army]

I dont know much about it but to me it seems that the contractors included this rise in their costs for any works ongoing, mainly large contruction jobs like Landsdown where the deals would have been signed a few years ago and they would have recieved this money from the clients in which case it should be passed on rather than keeping it for themselves.

not necessarily. the price variation clause is usually struck out of most contracts. Some contracts would be let on a fixed price lump sum basis so there is no going back.