Irish League clubs in Europe?

[Dodge]

For the record Distillery's 11-1 defeat came at the hands of the lowest possibled seeded team they could've faced

[AnnaghRed]

God thats bad, but it'll hardly impact much on their attendances this season

Maybe if we switch to summer football and bankrupt half our clubs, we could feel the pride of going out in the same round against a team from Albania?

[Dodge]

Well you've ready got the bankrupt bit...

[ifk101]

God thats bad, but it'll hardly impact much on their attendances this season

You can always rely on family and friends to turn up.

For the record Distillery's 11-1 defeat came at the hands of the lowest possibled seeded team they could've faced

It was also the largest aggregate defeat in the first round this year but it'll hardly impact much on their attendances this season.

[Steve Bruce]

Well you've ready got the bankrupt bit...

None of our clubs are in any immediate danger. Glentoran are really the only club that are in dire straights financially.

But this is not a point scoring thing. The thing that IL clubs have to get used to is, we are the worst (or atleast among them) in Europe and we're not going to improve much.

We get little funding, little tv exposure & little in the way of attendances. IL football is at this level because it's the level we are and whilst I do believe we should always strive to better ourselves, we have to do it in a responsible way and not follow the same road as the LOI. This isn't me point scoring as the LOI have a lot of good things going for it, but I think Shelbourne going as far as they did has been more trouble than it's worth as a lot of clubs have followed Shelbourne trying to chase a dream that is always going to be out of reach for any club on this island.

It would take a multi-millionaire who is willing to spending millions on getting the best players money can buy in this country and getting the luck of the draw right from 1st round to the last round of qualifying.

And that's just not going to happen.

The results this season have been shambolic for IL clubs. But it's something we have to accept. This is our level and unless something drastic changes, we will continue to sit at this level.

We however should not take any big risks in the hope of getting past a round or 2. We should just try and make our games more exciting to watch and make hte league a good league to watch even if the standard is low.

[pineapple stu]

Losing 11-1 to Georgian teams (who were 4-0 at half time each time, and presumably relaxed afterwards) is only your level because the players go on summer holidays each year.

Taking the competition seriously might only improve things to a 4-0 defeat against the same opposition, but it's definitely a non-drastic, non big-risk, change which can be implemented.

FWIW, UCD would be about the size of the smaller IL clubs, but because we took Europe seriously on both our times in it (calling all our players back early for pre-season training for the InterToto campaign in 2000; they were all looking forward to playing), we've gotten some good results. We've gone out first round each time, but at least we've enjoyed the experience, punched above our weight and can look back with pride on our achievements.

[EalingGreen]

None of our clubs are in any immediate danger. Glentoran are really the only club that are in dire straights financially.

But this is not a point scoring thing. The thing that IL clubs have to get used to is, we are the worst (or atleast among them) in Europe and we're not going to improve much.

We get little funding, little tv exposure & little in the way of attendances. IL football is at this level because it's the level we are and whilst I do believe we should always strive to better ourselves, we have to do it in a responsible way and not follow the same road as the LOI. This isn't me point scoring as the LOI have a lot of good things going for it, but I think Shelbourne going as far as they did has been more trouble than it's worth as a lot of clubs have followed Shelbourne trying to chase a dream that is always going to be out of reach for any club on this island.

It would take a multi-millionaire who is willing to spending millions on getting the best players money can buy in this country and getting the luck of the draw right from 1st round to the last round of qualifying.

And that's just not going to happen.

The results this season have been shambolic for IL clubs. But it's something we have to accept. This is our level and unless something drastic changes, we will continue to sit at this level.

We however should not take any big risks in the hope of getting past a round or 2. We should just try and make our games more exciting to watch and make hte league a good league to watch even if the standard is low.

Spot on in just about every respect, SB (imo), especially the last point.

P.S. Whilst the Glens do have a huge debt, in The Oval, they also have a (potentially) valuable site for redevelopment, as well as a reasonably wealthy Chairman (Aubry Ralph) who seems fairly committed to the club.

In which case, if/when the economy starts to pick up again; and/or the expansion of GB Belfast City Airport gets sorted; and/or the Government and IFA make progress over the Blanchflower Park Sports Centre & Stadium proposals; the Glens may be in a position to sell The Oval, clear their debts and become tenants at Blanchflower.

Of course, there are a huge number of "ifs and buts" in that scenario, any of which could further delay or even scupper any deal. But the good news is that unlike eg Ards or Bohs, we haven't (effectively) sold our ground before securing a replacement.

Further, with Ralph being a Property Developer, we've got to hope that he has the nous and integrity to put together a deal which is in the best interests of the club.

[EalingGreen]

Losing 11-1 to Georgian teams (who were 4-0 at half time each time, and presumably relaxed afterwards) is only your level because the players go on summer holidays each year.

Taking the competition seriously might only improve things to a 4-0 defeat against the same opposition, but it's definitely a non-drastic, non big-risk, change which can be implemented.

FWIW, UCD would be about the size of the smaller IL clubs, but because we took Europe seriously on both our times in it (calling all our players back early for pre-season training for the InterToto campaign in 2000; they were all looking forward to playing), we've gotten some good results. We've gone out first round each time, but at least we've enjoyed the experience, punched above our weight and can look back with pride on our achievements.

The IL season ended in May. Therefore, if IL clubs insist on players being available for European games in the first week of July, they will lack fitness if they go straight in.

And even if they come back early for pre-season preparation (i.e. in June), they will still lack match fitness.

Therefore, whilst they could be expected to be much more competitive than Distillery and Linfield were, they are still unlikely to progress - certainly not beyond the 2nd round. (For proof of that, you only need look at the Welsh clubs who, whilst performing creditably, still went out.)

And if you did try that, you would then have to give the players time off in August or September, since they are (after all) only part-timers. This would then screw up a team's domestic season.

Of course, the IL might consider moving to a summer season, with more full-time players. Then again, Sligo are in that position, and whilst they look to have done well in their two games, nonetheless they are in the exact same position as eg Distillery i.e. out of the competition in the 1st Round, after two defeats by mediocre opposition.

[pineapple stu]

When we were last in Europe, our season ended in May. We played the TotoToto, which started earlier than the UEFA. We played against a team featuring a couple of Bulgarian internationals (one of whom is still playing for Bulgaria) and drew both games.

The only difference I can see is that our players wanted to play in Europe, whereas yours don't.

(And with regards your point about not progressing beyond the second round - had Distillery won, they'd be welcoming Henrik Larsson for the next round. There's plenty of big teams and big names in the second round. Enough to make it worthwhile trying to get through every now and again).

[mypost]

And if you did try that, you would then have to give the players time off in August or September, since they are (after all) only part-timers. This would then screw up a team's domestic season.

Of course, the IL might consider moving to a summer season, with more full-time players. Then again, Sligo are in that position, and whilst they look to have done well in their two games, nonetheless they are in the exact same position as eg Distillery i.e. out of the competition in the 1st Round, after two defeats by mediocre opposition.

The LOI off-season barely lasts 6 weeks, before pre-season is underway. By February, you're into the friendlies. The teams have to play each other 4-6 times a season, and play 10-15 more games a year than their IL counterparts. They're not all full timers, and they have families too.

They still want to play in Europe. The IL lads see it as a mad pis-up, and have no ambition to either play in it, or get into the next round. The continous "beach" stories are both ludicrous and laughable. Playing Coruna in the CL 3rd round qualifiers is a goal for LOI clubs. Playing Coleraine in the snow is the height of ambition for IL clubs.

[pineapple stu]

Playing Coruna in the CL 3rd round qualifiers is a goal for LOI clubs.

Only if they want to go bankrupt as a near-direct result, though, which is the point EG's making.

But there's plenty of chances to play decent sides other than Coruna. such as Helsinborgs, who'll now travel to Lisburn's conquerors.

I also don't know how you figure LoI sides play 10-15 times more than IL sides. Our league season is 36 games in the Premier, theirs is 38. We both have the Setanta Cup. They have umpteen silly traditional cups which add numbers. I think the likes of Linfield play 50-60 times a season. Show me a LoI side playing 60-75 times a year?

[AnnaghRed]

It was also the largest aggregate defeat in the first round this year but it'll hardly impact much on their attendances this season.

Improving your co-efficient is obviously something that really matters to you dudes. Hope it all works out for you in the end.

[pineapple stu]

Where did he mention the coefficient?

[holidaysong]

Why don't fans of NI clubs get that better co-efficients mean better seedings in draws and therefore a better chance of getting further in the competition and getting more prize money and more 'big name' ties (hence more money)?

[mypost]

Only if they want to go bankrupt as a near-direct result, though, which is the point EG's making.

But there's plenty of chances to play decent sides other than Coruna.

You don't go bankrupt as a result of playing Coruna, it's moving games to Lansdowne Road in order to play Lille that screws you up.

2 years later, Derry got to the same stage of the competition and played PSG in their home ground. They haven't gone into freefall since.

Next year, our stadium will be fully compliant with European requirements. There's over 60 bulbs on each floodlight pylon, which can blind people with their strength if you glance at them in seconds. There'll be no need to move European games anywhere, and we'll be in good financial health.

A well-managed club doesn't go bust by playing big European games. But a club with no desire to break out of their comfort zone is a parochial obsessed club with no ambition imo.

[pineapple stu]

Shels only got to the stage of playing Coruna because they were going broke.

[Steve Bruce]

You don't go bankrupt as a result of playing Coruna, it's moving games to Lansdowne Road in order to play Lille that screws you up.

2 years later, Derry got to the same stage of the competition and played PSG in their home ground. They haven't gone into freefall since.

Next year, our stadium will be fully compliant with European requirements. There's over 60 bulbs on each floodlight pylon, which can blind people with their strength if you glance at them in seconds. There'll be no need to move European games anywhere, and we'll be in good financial health.

A well-managed club doesn't go bust by playing big European games. But a club with no desire to break out of their comfort zone is a parochial obsessed club with no ambition imo.

It's a bit easier to have ambition to go further, when you have a much better funded league with far bigger crowds who pay bigger ticket prices and the clubs don't get taxed on them either.

Northern Ireland is a FAR smaller country than the Republic and that is reflected in the attendances and standards between the leagues.

[pineapple stu]

But against that, none of our teams have rent from the national side...

[AnnaghRed]

Why don't fans of NI clubs get that better co-efficients mean better seedings in draws and therefore a better chance of getting further in the competition and getting more prize money and more 'big name' ties (hence more money)?

We do get it, its just that the better seedings, getting further in the competitions and earning more prize money, don't seem to have done the finances of recent LoI champions much good.

[mypost]

They would do good, if the clubs were managed properly. Which hasn't been the case with the champions for the last number of years. That's down to bad management and decisions by boards and directors. People that know what they're doing wouldn't allow their club to get into that state.