U16 Cup Farce

[olegunnar]

did u hear the one about the u16 cup competition that allowed some teams use u16 players, but other teams are allowed use u17's??

Enter the u16 girls national cup....

Can anyone understand how fai are ok with this? Girls are too old for gaynor u17 NEXT YR, too old for NEXT yrs U17 ireland squad, but are ok for this yrs u16 national cup. How a girl could turn 18, a mere 5 months after u16 cup final, and its ok?

great one fai!!!

[The One]

That's nothing Ole......only two teams(St Joseph's Girls, Sallynoggin, Dublin and Stella Maris, Dublin) are allowed to replay the last round with "overage players". Any team that was beaten in the previous round cannot replay their tie to avail of the new "overage" players rule.
This means that the teams which are through to the next round can now play "overage" players in all of the subsequent rounds.....hmmmm

I heard that only players who played in Winter Leagues at U16 may play in the U16's Cup.....which seems strange as the FAI Umbro U16's Women's Challenge Cup is a 2009 competition where as a Winter League is a 2008 competition and not every club which entered the FAI Umbro U16's Women's Challenge Cup played or had an opportunity to play in a Winter League......does that mean that they must stick to the old rule?

Add to this mix the rule in the WFAI rule addendum...(the one which gets printed out each year but doesn't seem to get distributed to all the clubs...) which says that the WFAI Committee may change the rules of the national competitions.......but NOT UNTIL AFTER THE FINAL HAS BEEN PLAYED in that season. I wonder how that rule stands up now? (If you were lucky enough to receive a copy of it, it is the last rule on the back page of the "Addendum" sheets which the WFAI produce. I think there are 6-8 pages in it and it is signed by Pauline O'Shaughnessy at the bottom of the first page).

I cannot understand why all of the "addendum" rules just aren't incuded in the WFAI Rule book for the season in question.....can anyone answer that one?

Questions:

1-Who changed the rule(FAI or WFAI)?
2-What was the protest and what was the ruling and on what grounds(should be published as it affects all clubs in the competition)?
3-Who actually has precedence in these cases(FAI or WFAI)?
4-Why is it not now referred to as the U17's Cup?
5-What are the WFAI doing in this whole sorry mess(officially it is an FAI competition isn't it)?
6-Would this ever happen in the Schoolboy National Cups?


(I'll answer 6......ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.)

[4goodsport]

Same thing happened U14...St Joseph's beat Salthill Devon (Galway) with overage players...wonder what rule will be applied to the U12 competition in Oct...?? anyone know?

[olegunnar]

thats an u11 cup now, for girls born 1994-99

[4goodsport]

Thx Ole that makes sense...at least now it will be a level playing field from the start of the competition, also it means that the clubs with teams U12 who have been abiding by the in-year rule won't have to change squads. One has to wonder how this became so messed up for the U14 & U16s...as usual no one is accountable.

[munsterman]

Peter Mcnamara who writes for the Evening Echo and the Racing Post has a sportshow on Life FM in Cork and today will be interviewing Pauline O'Shaughnessy on his show which runs from 6.05pm until 7pm it's 93.1fm but can also be listened to online at www.lifefm.ie just click on listen now when the site opens up

[4goodsport]

What's interview about....I assume it's not the topic of this thread in the forum ? ...even though I would like to hear her explain it. Perhaps it's about her brilliance as a WFAI Secretary.

[libero4]

I cant believe whats going on with the u.16 cup.
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised with anything involving FAI/WFAI.
How did this all start?
If you were caught playing an overage player in previous years you would have the book thrown at you. Why the sudden change, and in the middle of the competition?
I heard some bright spark attached to one of the Dublin clubs interpreted the rules in a way where overage players could play, and has got away with it.
Where does common sense come into play? Most teams have abided by the rules. Why dont the FAI throw these teams out and tell them to get real? Where is the fairness in bringing in last years 16s mid way through the competition, and what about the teams who went by the rules and were knocked out? Can they look for replays?
The FAI/WFAI never cease to amaze me. What is Niamh O'Donoghues stance in all this? She loves the sound of her own voice, but shirks responsibility when the going gets tough.
Could someone with a bit of common sense sort out this mess. U.16 means u.16 and is defined within the rules of the competition.
What next?

[4goodsport]

I believe it was triggered by the Dublin league moving to a winter/Summer Season. St Josephs in particular then went on to play their 2008/2009 underage teams (U14 &U16) in the Irish cup whilst applying the 2008 rule.
Two protests were lodged one by Stella Maris U16, who got a replay and won the replay when the playing field was level, and one protest by Salthill Devon who lost the protest. SDFC sub sequentially appealed that decision and lost as well.
Reason cited was simply. The rules were not breached because there is no rule for age eligibility. This is why the FAI/WFAI issued the clarifying letter 2 weeks ago basically allowing 17 yr olds to play U16 & 15 yr olds to play U14. I believe SDFC are considering Arbitration. It’s a complete joke and the administrative body should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen, the whole competition has been ruined. The “FIFA fair play” motto must not apply in Ireland
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Even St Josephs have stated the competitions should be scrapped and rerun as a blitz in Sept/Oct.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[4goodsport]

FYI just recieved an email that Salthill Devon FC (Galway) have posted to all Clubs in the U16 competition : reads as follows...
[FONT=Arial]Dear Secretary,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]As you will probably be aware by now, the rules regarding age eligibility for the U14 and U16 National Cup competitions have been the subject of recent controversy and clarifications from the FAI/WFAI effectively means that 17 yr Old Girls can now play in the U16 2009 competition once properly registered.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Salthill Devon would like to make our position clear and state how we intend to proceed in the U16 competition.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]There was a clear custom and practice in place dictating the age eligibility of players which required U16 Girls be born on or after Jan 1st 1993. This has now changed. It is worth noting that Salthill Devon won the 2008 competition on that well established basis.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]We started the current U14 and U16 competitions conforming with the rules, as we understood them. We are certain that virtually all other clubs approached the competition on the same premise and in the same spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]In our view, this new ruling is not in the in spirit of the game nor is it fair play as it relates to the many clubs who already fielded, in our view, a correctly eligible U16 team in this competition to date.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Consistent with this belief, we at Salthill Devon intend to proceed in the U16 Umbro Challenge Cup competition and field a U16 team consisting only of girls born on or after Jan 1st 1993, regardless of who we play or are drawn against. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]We are confident that you and many other clubs will appreciate our stance on this matter and, if you choose to adopt the same approach, we will certainly appreciate it and laud you for it.[/FONT]

[LmkSnr]

Watched 2008 u16 semi final aisling annacotty v st josephs .I remember that their was a
a difference in development ,age wise between the two teams st josephs being older and
physically stronger.st josephs won on peno,s.Makes a bit of sense now.SAD when something so simple can not be managed properly.

[4goodsport]

It's not just sad ...it is fundmentally wrong and unfair...how the WFAI/FAI allowed this to continue is beyond me. Salthill Devon at least have shown some backbone and decency to stand up for what is morally right. I would join the call for other clubs to do the same. Playing 15 year olds in an U14 competition , & playing 17 yr olds in an U16 competition..this must be only Juvenile cup competition in the world applying such rule based stupidity. I'd resign my position before defending this ridiculousness...apparently though it is being defended with Venom....well done WFAI/FAI hats off to you for a new low...

[The Chosen One]

Interesting to see the general feeling with the Fai/WFAI decisions. Questionable how a team like Stella lost their game against St.Josephs.. protested.. LOST the protest..and "Lisbon Treaty" like, get to have another go,while Salthill at U14 were in exactly the same position and were not afforded the same rules by the FAI.As its my first time to post not sure about naming names however the decisions are being made by the Domestic section of the FAI..I wonder about their ability to make judgements regarding Womens football?? All protests will be delt with in the same manor i.e. Not tollerated.I admire Salthills stance however it will have little impact as certain teams are now in a very strong position to win this competition with their 17's

[BBB In a sui]

My club is Ballyvary Blue Bombers, we have made the semi-finals with an under 14 team (that is players born on or after 1st January 1995.) Great work, expense and excitement has been part of this journey. Ironically we have reached this stage on a level playing field, That means that at least a quarter of the competition is pure.

From the skimpy letter received 2/3 weeks ago, I have rang the FAI on numberous occasions asking for them to clarify two things;

1) The age cathegory for this competition. What date do you have to be born after. Is it the 1st January 2009 or 2008. I am told there is no specific date!!!

2) Is it this years under 14 team (2009 model) or last years under 14 (2008 Model)? I am told that i have to play my 2009 under 14 model, but if i meet a winter league club they get to use their 2008 model. In plain english under 14's v under 15's.

From what is see they are hoping that this mess (made worse by people not strong enough to kick to touch CHEATING teams) just passes over for this year and they can tidy up the mess with more solid rules next year!

In the meantime we have a Semi-final with Longford Town Who made the final last year, we do not know if they will be fielding an under 15 team or not. The Game is at home for us and we don't know how to treat it. This should be a happy occasion where we are looking forward to showing our wares against our equals from another part of the country. Anyway life goes on.........

[The One]

Add to this mix the rule in the WFAI rule addendum...(the one which gets printed out each year but doesn't seem to get distributed to all the clubs...) which says that the WFAI Committee may change the rules of the national competitions.......but NOT UNTIL AFTER THE FINAL HAS BEEN PLAYED in that season. I wonder how that rule stands up now? (If you were lucky enough to receive a copy of it, it is the last rule on the back page of the "Addendum" sheets which the WFAI produce. I think there are 6-8 pages in it and it is signed by Pauline O'Shaughnessy at the bottom of the first page).


The important thing here is:
"NOT UNTIL AFTER THE FINAL HAS BEEN PLAYED in that season"

The WFAI/FAI are always going on about how important it is that Clubs abide by the SPIRIT OF THE RULES........and then this happens....

I just don't understand these changes/re-interpretations/whatever you want to call them. Who benefits from these changes @ U14 and U16 level? Is it a one or more clubs? Is it the girls game in Ireland?

[4goodsport]

The entire girls game in Ireland has taken a step back here...just at a time when a step forward could have built up some momentum. One club St Josephs has benefited throughout and have been the subject of two failed protests. The protests failed simply because the WFAI/FAI simply don't know their own rules and in my opinion are grossly negligent. Surely someone higher up in the fiefdom of the FAI is assessing these bureaucrates performance...have we lost what the game is all about ?
seems so...

[The Chosen One]

My club is Ballyvary Blue Bombers, we have made the semi-finals with an under 14 team (that is players born on or after 1st January 1995.) Great work, expense and excitement has been part of this journey. Ironically we have reached this stage on a level playing field, That means that at least a quarter of the competition is pure.

From the skimpy letter received 2/3 weeks ago, I have rang the FAI on numberous occasions asking for them to clarify two things;

1) The age cathegory for this competition. What date do you have to be born after. Is it the 1st January 2009 or 2008. I am told there is no specific date!!!

2) Is it this years under 14 team (2009 model) or last years under 14 (2008 Model)? I am told that i have to play my 2009 under 14 model, but if i meet a winter league club they get to use their 2008 model. In plain english under 14's v under 15's.

From what is see they are hoping that this mess (made worse by people not strong enough to kick to touch CHEATING teams) just passes over for this year and they can tidy up the mess with more solid rules next year!

In the meantime we have a Semi-final with Longford Town Who made the final last year, we do not know if they will be fielding an under 15 team or not. The Game is at home for us and we don't know how to treat it. This should be a happy occasion where we are looking forward to showing our wares against our equals from another part of the country. Anyway life goes on.........

If it any consolation I know that the Longford team have only played players born in 95 to date in the competition...lets hope they continue with this policy when the play the Bombers good luck with your game...

[BBB In a sui]

That's refreshing to hear that Longford are within the rules, so now we have half the competition 'Pure'. Thanks for your well wishes TCO.

[The Chosen One]

Has anybody realised that when the FAI re visit the rules next year they will more than likely make the U16 competion a 1994 Comp. This will mean that the girls all over the country born in 1993 will NEVER play at their age group in the All Ireland as this year is U17's and next year they will be too old...I cant wait...what a wonderful country to play in....

[4goodsport]

Chosen one you are spot on thats why this is so screwed up & unfair....as a btw on the U16 cup front I have to take my hat off to Killalla, Raheny, Lifford, St Francis & Wilton who have joined the "boycott"...and have stated I believe that they will field genuine U16 teams as per the the rules we have all played by for 20 yrs.....wonder what Stella have decided to do...hopefully given their initial protest and victory in the replay they will revert to real U16s akin to the way they correctly started the compeition...anyone know about Stella ?.....It's a real fingers up to the WFAI/FAI when the clubs justifiably ignore this bureaucratic nonsense. As far as what rules the WFAI/FAI will apply next year...who knows !! , they may revert, continue with this stupidity, or do something even more stupid...the latter seems to be the trend in my experience...G'Luk to all the clubs remaining in both competitions and fair play to those clubs who have "fair play" attitude.