Potentially eligible players thread

**Bungle** · 05/09/2014, 11:54 AM

I've come across English people who have two Irish born parents or 3/4 Irish grandparents and they don't feel in the slightest Irish, or are at best proud of their Irish roots, while feeling very English. Equally, I've come across English people who may have roots going back 3/4/5 generations (most of these people were in Liverpool) who would cheer for Ireland over England and who consider themselves more Irish than English.

It's a very difficult thing to measure how English someone is. By my reckoning, a fella like Noble, is very English and is probably only mildly proud of his Irish roots, while guys like Aldo were technically less Irish (one grandparent) but grew up in a surrounding culture of viewing himself as more Scouse (Irish) than English and didn't come across to me as a fraud like someone like Noble would.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 05/09/2014, 1:27 PM

There are also plenty of Irish people who move to the UK and become ahem.... gentrified.

Des Lynam, Terry Wogan, Pierce Brosnan, My uncle.

**Charlie Darwin** · 05/09/2014, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

There are also plenty of Irish people who move to the UK and become ahem.... gentrified.

Des Lynam, Terry Wogan, Pierce Brosnan, My uncle.

No idea who the first three are but agree on the last one.

**Wangball** · 05/09/2014, 2:48 PM

I personally have no issue with anything Noble has said to date.

Realistically all of this guff will be forgotten if he does declare and plays as well as we know he can for us.

**DeLorean** · 05/09/2014, 3:12 PM

Yeah I'm sure everybody would get over the blow if he got the winner in an important game, we're resilient like that.

**Wangball** · 05/09/2014, 3:22 PM

I think this lark of speculating about how Irish someone may or may not be is a bit much.

If he does decide to play for us it won't be because of his love of Bosco as a child or his familiarity with the poetry of Oisin and the rest of the Fenian Cycle - its going to be a business decision, plain and simple and I for one am okay with that as long as he shows up and gives his all once that decision is made.

**DannyInvincible** · 05/09/2014, 5:10 PM

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Des Lynam, Terry Wogan, Pierce Brosnan, My uncle.

You're Pierce Brosnan's nephew?! Why didn't you say?

**Olé Olé** · 05/09/2014, 10:32 PM

Richard Sadlier was on the Second Captains podcast and reckons the likes of Noble should be called up. Makes an interesting argument.

He told an interesting story about Ronnie O'Brien actually. Stated that he was sitting on the bench beside him at an under-20 game and Brian Kerr called O'Brien to warm up and he refused. Might explain why O'Brien never got a chance at senior level for Ireland.

**geysir** · 05/09/2014, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Richard Sadlier was on the Second Captains podcast and reckons the likes of Noble should be called up. Makes an interesting argument.

He told an interesting story about Ronnie O'Brien actually. Stated that he was sitting on the bench beside him at an under-20 game and Brian Kerr called O'Brien to warm up and he refused. Might explain why O'Brien never got a chance at senior level for Ireland.

Did Brian say please?
Ronnie refused a call up to a friendly intl in the USA (2006?).

**DannyInvincible** · 05/09/2014, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

He told an interesting story about Ronnie O'Brien actually. Stated that he was sitting on the bench beside him at an under-20 game and Brian Kerr called O'Brien to warm up and he refused. Might explain why O'Brien never got a chance at senior level for Ireland.

O'Brien had his chance. Stan invited him into the squad for the US tour in 2007 but O'Brien declined. He wasn't all that bothered about international football by the sounds of things: http://www.espnfc.com/story/433303

Originally Posted by ESPN/Ronnie O'Brien

"I know a lot of players have aspirations to play on their national teams, but they haven't called me in for a long time so I don't hold out hope for it," he says. "I'm just happy playing club football. People are going to think it's strange, but it's the way I've always been."

...

"I'm just coming back off an injury," O'Brien said. "I haven't played enough games. [The 2007 invite] just came at the wrong time."

...

"After I went to Juventus, I didn't get called into a couple of [international] U-21 squads. So I sort of stopped worrying about it then," O'Brien says.

"As long as I'm happy and playing [club football] every week, it's good enough for me. I'm not looking for all the accolades or being a big star that comes with being a national team player."

...

"If everything is going well and it's the right time to go and it's a good opportunity, then I'll go no problem," says O'Brien. "But it's not something I lose sleep over."

Was Sadlier making a connection between Noble and O'Brien?

**Stuttgart88** · 06/09/2014, 2:03 PM

Great chat here ( starts around ten mins) on Noble.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/813/641818/

Sadlier pragmatic and says he has no problem. Kenny Cunningham more emotional, says he likes the 5-6 lads we have available in CM and has no time for a guy who hadn't shown any keenness to play for us. Great viewing. I support Kenny.

**Charlie Darwin** · 06/09/2014, 2:43 PM

Kenny passes my gut test every time.

**TrapAPony** · 06/09/2014, 4:33 PM

I support Richard.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 06/09/2014, 4:45 PM

Getting capped by their country is the career highlight of many young footballers. We are not Noble's country. I don't want someone who doesn't even want it taking a squad place from someone who has worked their entire career towards reaching this accolade.

We have better players anyways. England struggle to qualify for every tournament in weak groups. If he isn't anywhere on their radar, he is not going to be drastically better than what we have.

And again, his general demeanor begs the question of what his attitude will be like if he doesn't get in the team? And if he walks straight into the team what does that message send?

**tricky_colour** · 06/09/2014, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I'd give Noble the benefit of the doubt on this one purely because it hasn't gained any traction.

Same Redditor posted this comment.

"Seriously.

It's worth noting that the crowd was giving the English players a fair bit of abuse (not so much from the family section mind, but I suppose it can be hard to tell where it's coming from when concentrating on the game).

Noble doesn't have a well known history of lashing out at supporters, but he did that game. Probably more as a reaction to the boos each English touch got more than a deep hatred of Ireland, but that's still a completely unacceptable thing for a future Irish international to scream at Irish supporters."

Which game?

**tricky_colour** · 06/09/2014, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

What about the generation in between; his parents? Can't they dilute, enhance or influence the determination of this specific measure?

Wayne Rooney and Gary Cahill are from Irish backgrounds. Phil Jagielka is of Polish extraction. Andros Townsend is of Greek Cypriot and Jamaican descent. Danny Welbeck's roots are Ghanaian. Such "diluted" identities have never put the FA off selecting these players. Who else, besides poor Noble, has fallen victim to this alleged "rule"? If you're English and good enough, you'll get called up; if you're English and not quite good enough, you won't. I don't see why the "being English enough" factor would even come into play. What evidence is there to support your suspicion?

No if your have 2 Irish grandparents then you have 50% Irish blood so you either have and one english and one Irish parent or you have 2 parents who are 50% Irish.
I suspect he has one parent of each nationality, that is the way I look at it anyway, blood if thicker than water.

England have been a flop for 50 years, under achievers for 50 years, the evidence is staring you in the face, ie Mark Nobel, were he 100% English
I have little doubt he would have been capped by now. Exhibit #2 is Kevin Nolan, the Nolan sisters made him unselectable for England. I rest my case!!!

**tricky_colour** · 06/09/2014, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Yeah I'm sure everybody would get over the blow if he got the winner in an important game, we're resilient like that.

So.. you don't think he will every be fully accepted then

**tricky_colour** · 06/09/2014, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

You're Pierce Brosnan's nephew?! Why didn't you say?

The name's Bond, Paddy O'Bond.

**Olé Olé** · 06/09/2014, 7:08 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

O'Brien had his chance. Stan invited him into the squad for the US tour in 2007 but O'Brien declined. He wasn't all that bothered about international football by the sounds of things: http://www.espnfc.com/story/433303

Was Sadlier making a connection between Noble and O'Brien?

Well, yeah. The link he was drawing was that if an Irish player is half-arsed then they're a waste of time. Same principle applies for a half-arsed English-born player playing for Ireland. On the other hand, a fully-committed, English-born player would be, in Sadlier's view, worth pursuing and in spite of the comments that Noble has made of late.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 06/09/2014, 7:20 PM

Ronnie O'Brien probably played little more than a dozen matches after that story. Also, he had just returned from one of a myriad of injuries that dogged his career. He retired at 28 for God's sake. It's ridiculous to compare his situation to Noble's for any number of reasons, not least the fact that the latter isn't remotely Irish.