Potentially eligible players thread

[Olé Olé]

Damn fine questions, now please find the bloody answers!

Will Tommie Hoban and Ciaran Clark develop into better centre-halves than Richard Dunne simply because they spent the first 15 years of their lives in England while Richard didn't (bearing in mind they are all genetically 100%)?

[paul_oshea]

I only get involved on occasion with certified bulsh**ters

Touché.

Says the man who uses a couple of comments in an article written 6 or 7 years ago, against someone who basis his on speaking with someone who has lived their all his life(born and bred) and generations of his family too. And then has the audacity to make this statement!

I see sligo are buiilding some new facilities seems in tough times given their current form over the last few years they have found it easy enough to get sponsorship( im aware of their grants also) to do all this work, pretty strong model give the current financial climate. It amazes me in one sense a town with a population of 40k or so can manage this. If it works for them then why cant the model be reproduced across the country?*

*Granted i have no idea how the day to day running of the clubs or the fundamentals/financials are handled. But from raising cash for infrastructural or long term project, the model seems second to none.

[geysir]

Touché.

Says the man who uses a couple of comments in an article written 6 or 7 years ago, against someone who basis his on speaking with someone who has lived their all his life(born and bred) and generations of his family too. And then has the audacity to make this statement!

Yes Paul, you still can't accept that you and your mate didn't know the Rooney's local pub was the Western in Croxteth and that you were spouting speculative bull on that matter.
I am not aware of an article from years ago. The Rooney's local pub and Wayne Rooney's connection to that particular area and pub in Croxteth, has been highlighted many times in mainstream english media. It's common knowledge.
Grow up and move on.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Will Tommie Hoban and Ciaran Clark develop into better centre-halves than Richard Dunne simply because they spent the first 15 years of their lives in England while Richard didn't (bearing in mind they are all genetically 100%)?

Turkey - Hamit Altintop, Nuri Sahin
Germany - Miroslav Klose, Lukas Podolski
Spain - Marcos Senna, Diego Costa
Portugal - Deco
France - Patrick Vieira
Ireland - erm Paul Green, Simon Cox

[Stuttgart88]

Sorry, what point are you making?

[Dunners]

rubbish as usual

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

rubbish as usual

Just a harsh truth. Whatever my opinions about the integrity of it, there was a time when the Granny rule would benefit Ireland. Right now, I don't see many granny rule players that are better than Irish born players; McGeady and McCarthy being the obvious exceptions and their motivations for declaring for Ireland are entirely different to the motivations of people like Paul Green.

Someone like Marcos Senna on the other hand was pivotal in Spain's transition into the best team in the world and Owen Hargreaves was arguably England's best player at the 2006 World Cup.

And no need for that imo.

* I think it would be a lot better if they changed the eligibility rules so that players can only qualify for a country through parentage. Grandparentage shouldn't be enough in my opinion, nor should residence.

And I am aware McCarthy and McGeady are eligible through Grandparents but I stand by that. If two Irish born players of their potential declared for Scotland, imagine how royally p*ssed off we'd all be, eh?

[Charlie Darwin]

there was a time when the Granny rule would benefit Ireland. Right now, I don't see many granny rule players that are better than Irish born players;

Surely that's a good thing? I would challenge you on there ever being a time when the granny rule players were better than Irish-born players. At best, guys like Mick McCarthy and Andy Townsend were as good as the native-born/raised players like McGrath and Moran. Realistically now, you're not going to be getting guys in their mid-20s declaring for us who can go on to be really good internationals, due to a combination of the rules tightening and more players getting England caps at a younger age. So the granny rule will in future be more of a supplemental thing than the dominant feature of the team.

[Stuttgart88]

Towk, so why not mention McCarthy and McGeady in post 584 above instead of Green and Cox?

I'd contend that you exhibit a habit of using bad examples to make a point when there are equally good examples that undermine your point. A habit, mind, not every time. You do actually make a fair bit of sense in among the stubborn silly stuff that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[peadar1987]

Just a harsh truth. Whatever my opinions about the integrity of it, there was a time when the Granny rule would benefit Ireland. Right now, I don't see many granny rule players that are better than Irish born players; McGeady and McCarthy being the obvious exceptions and their motivations for declaring for Ireland are entirely different to the motivations of people like Paul Green.

Someone like Marcos Senna on the other hand was pivotal in Spain's transition into the best team in the world and Owen Hargreaves was arguably England's best player at the 2006 World Cup.

And no need for that imo.

* I think it would be a lot better if they changed the eligibility rules so that players can only qualify for a country through parentage. Grandparentage shouldn't be enough in my opinion, nor should residence.

And I am aware McCarthy and McGeady are eligible through Grandparents but I stand by that. If two Irish born players of their potential declared for Scotland, imagine how royally p*ssed off we'd all be, eh?

I'd be ****ed off, but it'd be their right.

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. Are you of mixed heritage? Because if not, then who are you to dictate to people which country they should and shouldn't identify with?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'd be ****ed off, but it'd be their right.

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. Are you of mixed heritage? Because if not, then who are you to dictate to people which country they should and shouldn't identify with?

The majority of players that declare for Ireland are doing so out of financial reasons and sporting reasons not sentimental reasons. Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Eduardo declaring for Croatia is also disgraceful for different reasons but at least these countries are getting world class players.

[BonnieShels]

I'd be ****ed off, but it'd be their right.

Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. Are you of mixed heritage? Because if not, then who are you to dictate to people which country they should and shouldn't identify with?

You don't even need to be of mixed heritage to see this for what it is Peadar.
TOWK is talking through his hoop.

The majority of players that declare for Ireland are doing so out of financial reasons and sporting reasons not sentimental reasons. Diego Costa declaring for Spain and Eduardo declaring for Croatia is also disgraceful for different reasons but at least these countries are getting world class players.

WHAT THE F**K are you spouting on about here?

I dare you to go and say that to Mick McCarthy or Kevin Kilbane. Or Stutts or Peadar or Tricky or anyone else who are or are related to "mixed" heritage people.

To suggest that James McCarthy's or Aiden McGeady's reasons for declaring for Ireland are none other than because they want to or because they are Irish is beyond me.

You wonder why people are annoyed at you and then you go on talk such waffle. I'm starting to just accept you are trolling.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

You don't even need to be of mixed heritage to see this for what it is Peadar.
TOWK is talking through his hoop.




WHAT THE F**K are you spouting on about here?

I dare you to go and say that to Mick McCarthy or Kevin Kilbane. Or Stutts or Peadar or Tricky or anyone else who are or are related to "mixed" heritage people.

To suggest that James McCarthy's or Aiden McGeady's reasons for declaring for Ireland are none other than because they want to or because they are Irish is beyond me.

You wonder why people are annoyed at you and then you go on talk such waffle. I'm starting to just accept you are trolling.

Firstly, I categorically stated that James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady's reasons for declaring for Ireland are entirely different to most of the people who declare but you choose to blatantly ignore this and make a bunch of baseless accusations.

Secondly, I said that eligibility rules should be restricted to parentage.

Thirdly, I said that the majority - not all - of granny rule players don't play for sentimental reasons. It is absolutely naive to think otherwise.

Seriously, if you are going to make such accusations - fine - but could you at least read all of what I'm saying.

If the eligibility rules were changed to parentage instead of grandparentage, I think it would lead to a lot less ambiguity such as players playing for multiple countries at underage level and even senior level.

[BonnieShels]

1. You did indeed state that about McCarthy and McGeady but what you said is undermined by you saying that the rule should be changed to parentage only which would rule out McGeady and McCarthy.

2. Why should they be limited to parentage? The grandparent rule is not being abused as it stands to the extent you think it is and in fact it is the residency requirement rule that is blatantly of issue with you. Getting into discussions about eligibility is unwise on foot.ie unless you are really sure about what you're getting at. I wasn't being smart on the Eligibility Thread when you joined here. I genuinely think you need to brush up on your understanding of how the rules work pertaining to Irish players and those of other countries.

3. Who are you to say the majority don't play for sentimental reasons and who are you to decide what is a right and wrong reason?
Of course for every Kilbane (parentage) there is a Townsend and god knows I would prefer if playing for Ireland was their priority but if they play with distinction (Lawrence, Green, Aldridge, Townsend) then their motives are irrelevant to me.

4. The ambiguity you have concerns with has bugger all to do with the rule re grandparentage.

[gastric]

TOWK, Such is your obsession with players' background, do you actually enjoy watching Ireland or do you just like the players who meet your myopic definition of eligibility? I don't believe I have ever watched a player not give their all for Ireland even if their ability could be questioned. The FAI also work within the FIFA rules, so just get over yourself!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

1. You did indeed state that about McCarthy and McGeady but what you said is undermined by you saying that the rule should be changed to parentage only which would rule out McGeady and McCarthy.

2. Why should they be limited to parentage? The grandparent rule is not being abused as it stands to the extent you think it is and in fact it is the residency requirement rule that is blatantly of issue with you. Getting into discussions about eligibility is unwise on foot.ie unless you are really sure about what you're getting at. I wasn't being smart on the Eligibility Thread when you joined here. I genuinely think you need to brush up on your understanding of how the rules work pertaining to Irish players and those of other countries.

3. Who are you to say the majority don't play for sentimental reasons and who are you to decide what is a right and wrong reason?
Of course for every Kilbane (parentage) there is a Townsend and god knows I would prefer if playing for Ireland was their priority but if they play with distinction (Lawrence, Green, Aldridge, Townsend) then their motives are irrelevant to me.

4. The ambiguity you have concerns with has bugger all to do with the rule re grandparentage.

Not being myopic and looking at it from a Scottish perspective, I can fully understand their frustrations about McCarthy and McGeady playing for Ireland. Conor Clifford is of Scottish descent. If he declared for Scotland whilst at Chelsea, Irish fans would be going apes***.

I understand I may need to research eligibility further. Point taken. My stance still hasn't changed though. Too many underage Irish players declaring for England (Keane's, Bamford) and vice versa. The circumstances towards jumping ship usually being vastly different. Keane's and Bamford are on the books at Man Utd and Chelsea where on the flipside, the underage England caps who declare for Ireland usually declare for us after the England ship has sailed. Even the much vaunted, Jack Grealish is hemming and hawing over what country he plays for.

Kevin Kilbane is one of the exceptions and of course he had Irish parentage - which I believe is the line at where eligibility should end. You mention Paul Green. The lad didn't even know he was eligible until his Grandfather told him. It's just a bit strange to me. He doesn't know/Grandad doesn't know he's Irish?? Anyways, eligibility isn't up to me and as you say, ultimately, if they play for the shirt, that's all that matters.

There would be a lot less ambiguity if playing International football was limited to players with parentage. Using the Jack Grealish example again, the lad doesn't come across as if he would be upset if he had to play for England.

It's football at the end of the day. Just because Wayne Rooney plays for England doesn't mean he isn't proud of his Irish roots. There are players (Rooney, Scholes) who are more in touch with their roots than players like (Townsend, Green).

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

TOWK, Such is your obsession with players' background, do you actually enjoy watching Ireland or do you just like the players who meet your myopic definition of eligibility? I don't believe I have ever watched a player not give their all for Ireland even if their ability could be questioned. The FAI also work within the FIFA rules, so just get over yourself!

I don't make the rules so I just accept it. Never rated Kevin Kilbane as a player but as a man, he is a legend. St Ledger wears his heart on his sleeve and has scored some memorable goals (a couple should have meant a lot more). Lawrence, I thought was a decent player.

I support all the players in the green shirt. That doesn't change my beliefs though. The national team takes precedence over everything else!

[BonnieShels]

Not being myopic and looking at it from a Scottish perspective, I can fully understand their frustrations about McCarthy and McGeady playing for Ireland. Conor Clifford is of Scottish descent. If he declared for Scotland whilst at Chelsea, Irish fans would be going apes***.

I honestly don't give a crap about what Scottish fans think about it. Likewise I'm sure they don't give a crap about what we thought when Darren Fletcher decided to play for Scotland.

I understand I may need to research eligibility further. Point taken. My stance still hasn't changed though. Too many underage Irish players declaring for England (Keane's, Bamford) and vice versa.

Too many?

The Keanes declaring for England is their prerogative. I don't like it. But if they don't want to play for Ireland as priority then so be it.
If England doesn't work out and they decide to play for us and are called up and play with distinction then who are we to criticise.

Their Englishness does not dilute their Irishness and you have no right to decide how anyone feels or how their Irishness is manifested.

The circumstances towards jumping ship usually being vastly different. Keane's and Bamford are on the books at Man Utd and Chelsea where on the flipside, the underage England caps who declare for Ireland usually declare for us after the England ship has sailed. Even the much vaunted, Jack Grealish is hemming and hawing over what country he plays for.

Again, if they decide they don't want to play for us, then fine. No point crying over it.

Kevin Kilbane is one of the exceptions and of course he had Irish parentage - which I believe is the line at where eligibility should end. You mention Paul Green. The lad didn't even know he was eligible until his Grandfather told him. It's just a bit strange to me. He doesn't know/Grandad doesn't know he's Irish?? Anyways, eligibility isn't up to me and as you say, ultimately, if they play for the shirt, that's all that matters.

The lad didn't know possibly because eligibility is a complicated business. I mean, Martin O'Neill, Jim Magilton and Kevin Keegan were all eligible but they didn't know.

There would be a lot less ambiguity if playing International football was limited to players with parentage. Using the Jack Grealish example again, the lad doesn't come across as if he would be upset if he had to play for England.

The ambiguity does not exist. The rules are very clear.

It's football at the end of the day. Just because Wayne Rooney plays for England doesn't mean he isn't proud of his Irish roots. There are players (Rooney, Scholes) who are more in touch with their roots than players like (Townsend, Green).

I don't think this makes any sense in the context of what you've said previously.

[BonnieShels]

I don't make the rules so I just accept it. Never rated Kevin Kilbane as a player but as a man, he is a legend. St Ledger wears his heart on his sleeve and has scored some memorable goals (a couple should have meant a lot more). Lawrence, I thought was a decent player.

I support all the players in the green shirt. That doesn't change my beliefs though. The national team takes precedence over everything else!

You clearly don't accept it.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul Green may not have known he was eligible but he did know his grandfather was Irish. I think there's a difference.