Potentially eligible players thread

[EalingGreen]

Agree with that and I honestly think most people in NI (as opposed to most people who turn up to watch NI games) would agree. It works for numerous other sports and flags and anthems can always be finessed. I know EG will disagree and I would only support it if it turned out it's what most people in both jurisdictions want.

Even if "most" people in NI did agree (highly debateable), what the hell has it got to do with them? Why should the views of someone who has never gone to a game in his/her life, nor taken any interest in the team, count for anything?

What you and many other people on this forum either cannot see, or will not admit, is that the NI football team does not "represent" Northern Ireland, any more than the ROI team represents the Republic*. Rather each represents its National Association, respectively the IFA and FAI.

As for what people, or even football fans, in your jurisdiction might want, you've already got your own team, who may select players from throughout Ireland, so what the hell more do you want, never mind deserve?

* - Much less "Ireland" (island).

[EalingGreen]

I think when it comes to sports with fans / crowds/ stadia, the only one it works with is Rugby I guess? I suspect the rugby guys are unionists who don't necessarily agree with us on every and all social or political issues. But my feelings is that a proportion of the soccer fans are more hardened loyalists. It might just make it trickier.

Have you ever actually spoken to any NI fans about that? Ever questioned them as to their politics etc? (Serious questions btw).

I only know a few ROI fans, but if pushed, I'd guess (emphasise) that they are drawn from a wide spectrum, to include SF/FF/FG/Greens/SDLP etc, maybe even a few Alliance(!), along with all those people who don't care for politics of any stripe.

And you know what? NI fans are exactly the same, the one thing we have in common being that we are all football fans. Just like ROI fans.

Similarly, some NI fans are also keen rugby fans, some are moderately interested and some have no interest whatever. (I won't try to guess the percentages) Either way, the Ireland rugby team, and how the IRFU administers the game, have no relevance to the items you are discussing.

Unless, of course, you need them to...

[EalingGreen]

How or why on earth would I know the person or persons involved?

What an odd reply.

You used that incident to make an implication about NI football fans, even despite your having no idea who was behind it.

It would be like me eg tarring ROI fans, or maybe GAA fans, when the likes of George Best, Mary Peters or Barry McGuigan received (credible) death threats - an outrageous notion.

As for me, all I know is that NI football fans were universally disgusted by it, wherever it came from.

[EalingGreen]

Cricket, hockey, boxing. You're right about some of the NI fan base. The football team has been adopted as an emblem of identity by some hard line Loyalists, but how representative are they of the wider population? Maybe they wouldn't buy into an all-island team, but that doesn't mean they should have a veto..

Why should it be a matter for "the wider population" [sic] to veto, or endorse, such a team?

The only constituencies which count are the football community in NI, plus FIFA.

Historically many NI players from a Unionist background favoured a combined team/ There's nothing to prevent a few friendly games like the Shamrock Rovers v Brazil game.

"Many"? Spoken to many have you?

As for your SRFC v Brazil game (over half a century ago btw), I know one participant who most definitely wouldn't have favoured a combined team (though he was always up for a good laugh, a couple of pints and a weekend away!).

While I have spoken to one legendary former NI international, from the "other side of the house" who was pretty disgusted with the FAI when the Darron Gibson affair first sprung up.

But as you say, there's nothing preventing you organising a few "hands across the border" friendlies, so go ahead, I'd be interested to see how you get on.

[tetsujin1979]

Bradley isn't eligible, if you want to continue discussing him, please move it to the world football forum

[Diggs246]

Have you ever actually spoken to any NI fans about that? Ever questioned them as to their politics etc? (Serious questions btw).

I only know a few ROI fans, but if pushed, I'd guess (emphasise) that they are drawn from a wide spectrum, to include SF/FF/FG/Greens/SDLP etc, maybe even a few Alliance(!), along with all those people who don't care for politics of any stripe.

And you know what? NI fans are exactly the same, the one thing we have in common being that we are all football fans. Just like ROI fans.

Similarly, some NI fans are also keen rugby fans, some are moderately interested and some have no interest whatever. (I won't try to guess the percentages) Either way, the Ireland rugby team, and how the IRFU administers the game, have no relevance to the items you are discussing.

Unless, of course, you need them to...

Obviously the vast majority of northern Irish fans are decent people who love their football. No one is stating any different

I say a proportion are hardline loyalists.

You have those guys and we have the lads from ybig.ie ! So we all have our crosses to bare

[Eirambler]

I always read EalingGreen's posts in the voice of this fella.

https://youtu.be/wxpYW_w5pgo?si=mhS4GM-ZV6Jperlm

[John83]

Some of the conversations he takes part in are maybe tenser than they need to be - which isn't to say that that's all his fault - but his perspective and niche knowledge add to the quality of the discussions here.

[Fixer82]

As for your SRFC v Brazil game (over half a century ago btw), I know one participant who most definitely wouldn't have favoured a combined team (though he was always up for a good laugh, a couple of pints and a weekend away!).

Quick question you may know the answer to EG.
Why was George Best not in that squad? Was he injured? He was definitely still playing for NI at that time

[Jolly Red Giant]

Quick question you may know the answer to EG.
Why was George Best not in that squad? Was he injured? He was definitely still playing for NI at that time

Best went on holidays to Marbella in May 1973 - while there he was stricken with thrombosis. He subsequently spent time in hospital in Manchester when he returned On top of that Tommy Docherty was feuding with Best and claimed that Best was in breach of his contract with Man Utd and the club would not allow him to play. It is likely that if he was fit he participation would have been blocked because the match was sanctioned by FIFA. With the drinking, it is possible he never properly recovered from the episode - he played 12 times the following season and was dumped by United at the end of the season.

It is very unfortunate that he didn't appear - Best was very vocal throughout his career about wanting to play for an all-Ireland team. His presence would have really added to the occasion.

Derek Dougan later claimed that Best 'would not have gone off the rails' if he had been able to play for an all-Ireland international team. While an open advocate of an all-Ireland team, and highly critical of the IFA bureaucrats in their approach, Dougan was prone to exaggeration - and his claim about Best probably falls into that category - but it would have been interesting to see what impact an all-Ireland team would have had on Best, on the rest of the players and on the political situation on the island if an all-Ireland team had emerged before the troubles.

It would have been on hell of a team - both sets of players would have complemented one another with each covering the others weaknesses. With Liam Touhy (or Giles) as manager and Best not falling off a cliff in 1974 - it could have achieved some remarkable things.

Pat Jennings
Willie McFaul
Pat Rice
Joe Kinnear
Paddy Mulligan
Terry Neill
Alan Hunter
John Dempsey
Tommy Carroll
Sammy Nelson
Jimmy Holmes
David Craig
Tony Dunne
Johnny Giles
Sammy McIlroy
Dave Clements
Gerry Daly
Liam Brady (in 1974)
Bryan Hamilton
Martin O'Neill
George Best
Derek Dougan
Don Givens
Steve Heighway

[Jolly Red Giant]

Can't you see that Grealish was "playing you" from the start i.e. using ROI to get playing time for a higher age group than he would have got with England, until he was no longer eligible for your U-21's? And that he and Rice eventually reverted to the country of their choice (and birth), a country which (incidentally) was miles better/more attractive than their original team.

I think you are attempting to throw a lump of mud here - Grealish grew up in an Irish household in Birmingham - played GAA as a teenager etc. Both Grealish and Rice opted for England because of pressure from both agents and their clubs - higher transfer values as English players and higher income streams as English players. Grealish's father now works for the agent who persuaded him to switch allegiance.

And I am making these points as someone who, while I regret that they are not playing for Ireland, I don't have any issue with either player opting to play for England. No kid should be pushed into making a decision like that while they are still a kid - but money rules all in football these days.

As an NI fan of over half a century, how is it in the interest of me and my fellow NI fans, to see our team disappear? As I've said consistently, and I'm sure the vast majority of my fellow NI fans would agree, I have no more desire to see an all-island team than I have to see an all-UK team, even when the latter is more logical politically, both big "P" (United Nations) and small "p" (FIFA).

As a Republic of Ireland fan for over half a century - I have zero issue with losing 'our team'. I do recognise that 50 years of sectarian division in the North / Northern Ireland does have an impact on the outlook of many / most soccer fans in the North (from both sides of that sectarian division). Your reference to an 'all-UK team' is interesting - in that there is an all-UK team in many sports and competitions, most prominently the Olympics. Yet the British media consistently refer to 'Team GB' - not 'Team GB + NI'. It shows the regard that the British establishment have towards their 'subjects' in Northern Ireland. Indeed, from a British, particularly English perspective, those in the North who regard themselves as British, are regarded as Irish by the same establishment once they set foot on English soil. That is the reality and it is based on a British imperialist outlook.

My motiviation for an all-Ireland team is political - not for an all-Ireland team based on Irish nationalism - but a recognition that soccer fans throughout the island are almost exclusively working class and working class people North and South, Catholic or Protestant, Nationalist or Unionist, have common interest and far more that unites them than divides them. As I have previously asserted, the sectarian divisions on this island are promoted by the established elites, North and South and in Britain, to maintain political, economic, social and religious control over working class people. When class interests are pushed to the fore, sectarian division are forced into the background - and this will be amply demonstrated with the general strike of public sector workers, Catholics and Protestants, in the North tomorrow. Sport is one of the fields of endeavour where sectarian division among working class people can be overcome - for example, despite the 85 years of conflict in Israel/Palestine there are soccer teams in the Israeli league that draw their support from both the Jewish and the Palestinian communities. In my view an all-Ireland soccer team could contribute to demonstrating the common interests of working class people on this island and assist with alleviating the sectarian divisions that still exist.

In any case, we have qualified to as many Finals as you, including getting to the Quarter Finals twice. But if you told me that we would never qualify again in my lifetime, then it wouldn't change a damned thing for me - all I've ever asked is that win, lose or draw. we send out 11 players who give 100% for the shirt, without their politics/race/religion etc mattering one damned bit.

Unfortunately - the reality is that politics and religion in the North do matter. For me the success at international level is very much secondary. I would not and do not advocate an all-Ireland team without an all-island league. Creating an all-island league with teams from North and South would (along with serving important political aims - i.e. demonstrating common working class interests) significantly improve the development of soccer on this island - stronger teams, bigger attendances, new rivalries etc. It could create a situation whereby Irish players across the island would find it more attractive to remain here and play for Irish teams - where Irish soccer fans support Irish rather than English (or Scottish) teams etc. - where teams on the island could develop to the point of being able to compete in European competitions - where the island could have a regularly participant in the CL group stage, teams in the Europa League and Conference etc.

At the end of the day all sport is rooted in politics - unfortunately the people who run sporting organisations tend to come for the upper echelons of society and they operate in the interests of the money and the money men. The only place that working class people can exert an influence is on the pitch and on the terraces and they should do so based on the common interests of the working class, not in the interests of those who promote working class divisions and whom benefit from the same division.

[Jolly Red Giant]

As for your SRFC v Brazil game (over half a century ago btw), I know one participant who most definitely wouldn't have favoured a combined team (though he was always up for a good laugh, a couple of pints and a weekend away!).

That is hardly a difficult one to figure out

While I have spoken to one legendary former NI international, from the "other side of the house" who was pretty disgusted with the FAI when the Darron Gibson affair first sprung up.

Like the cases of Grealish and Rice - Gibson's decision to switch to the Republic team happened when he was a kid (16 or maybe 17) - and it is hardly a surprise that the IFA kicked up a stink. However, that decision really isn't something that should be influenced by either the FAI or the IFA and the reality is that they have created issues like this as a result of the self-interest of the people who run both associations. And players on this island have a right to criticise the associations - they see far more of the shenanigans that go on behind the scenes than we, as fans, do. The FAI do deserve criticism for their carry on at the time - but this is nothing new, for either association and the people who run them.

[Joxerbrowne]

Have to agree re a United Ireland football team uniting working class men of every religion.

The sport of Boxing is where you can see this the most, the only sport on this Island where lads from every single type of background mix and become good friends. You have lads like Carl Frampton from a tough loyalist estate in Belfast become team mates with lads like Davey Joyce (Irish traveller) and Paddy Barnes from Ardoyne and Kenny Egan from Dublin with support from the whole Island.

It's a real shame we don't have a United Ireland side. End of the day we are all Irish and have more in common than some might like to think.

[EalingGreen]

I always read EalingGreen's posts in the voice of this fella.

https://youtu.be/wxpYW_w5pgo?si=mhS4GM-ZV6Jperlm

And I always think of this fella when reading your posts:

https://youtu.be/nOWR2LPZ-TI

(The one in the ROI shirt, that is)

[EalingGreen]

I think you are attempting to throw a lump of mud here - Grealish grew up in an Irish household in Birmingham - played GAA as a teenager etc. Both Grealish and Rice opted for England because of pressure from both agents and their clubs - higher transfer values as English players and higher income streams as English players.

Both Grealish and Rice have an Irish heritage, but that is by no means all of their make-up, since they are at least as much English as they are Irish.
And if you look at Grealish, as someone who has no "dog in the fight", it seems to me that he used ROI to gain experience at a higher age group than he would have got with England. The fact that he switched when he did, to play oin one last U-21 tournament, and even after he was being offered a place in the senior squad by Martin O'Neill, indicates to me where his real preference lay.
As for Rice, he developed much later than JG, such that when he was first being considered for a senior cap with ROI, even WHU fans wouldn't have given him a chance of playing for England. Of course that was to change not much more than a season or two later.
As for "pressure from both agents and their clubs", that may well have been a factor, but you cannot assume that it was the only one, never mind the decisive one, even if it comforts you to imagine so.

Grealish's father now works for the agent who persuaded him to switch allegiance.

And does the agent tell Jack's oul fella how to dress as well?

And I am making these points as someone who, while I regret that they are not playing for Ireland, I don't have any issue with either player opting to play for England. No kid should be pushed into making a decision like that while they are still a kid - but money rules all in football these days.

Yet when Michael O'Neill made that very same point (when eg the FAI sought to cap teenagers who had already played for NI at, say, U-17 level, thereby using up their one permitted switch), he got pelters from ROI fans, including some on this forum.

Funny that.

As a Republic of Ireland fan for over half a century - I have zero issue with losing 'our team'.

Fcuk me, that's sad.

I do recognise that 50 years of sectarian division in the North / Northern Ireland does have an impact on the outlook of many / most soccer fans in the North (from both sides of that sectarian division). Your reference to an 'all-UK team' is interesting - in that there is an all-UK team in many sports and competitions, most prominently the Olympics. Yet the British media consistently refer to 'Team GB' - not 'Team GB + NI'.

"Team GB " is a marketing brand, copyrighted and registered in 1999 as a trademark with the Patent Office.

Meanwhile, here is what the BOA says on its website:
"The British Olympic Association (BOA) is the National Olympic Committee (NOC) for Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The BOA is responsible for the participation in the Olympic Games of athletes from GB and NI, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and UK Overseas Territories which do not have their own National Olympic Committee."

Personally I'd kinda prefer if it was "Team UK", but quite honestly, I have rather more important things to worry about. Which reminds me, I must rearrange my sock drawer this afternoon, it's getting into a bit of a state.

It shows the regard that the British establishment have towards their 'subjects' in Northern Ireland. Indeed, from a British, particularly English perspective, those in the North who regard themselves as British, are regarded as Irish by the same establishment once they set foot on English soil. That is the reality and it is based on a British imperialist outlook.

As someone who has lived in England for four decades, I wonder how I've managed to survive all this time.

Though at least I never had it so bad as this poor sod:
https://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-7-5913676-Nov2022/

But still, thank you for the history lesson, it's always good to be told stuff you never knew.

My motiviation for an all-Ireland team is political - not for an all-Ireland team based on Irish nationalism - but a recognition that soccer fans throughout the island are almost exclusively working class and working class people North and South, Catholic or Protestant, Nationalist or Unionist, have common interest and far more that unites them than divides them.

"Almost exclusively working class" is it?

Stay on the line caller, you might be interested to hear from our next studio guest, the Twenty First Century...

"The share of the population that lives in middle-income households in Ireland increased by about 9 percentage points, from 60% in 1991 to 69% in 2010. The share in lower-income households fell 7 percentage points, and the upper-income share decreased 1 percentage point."
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/i...-middle-class/

As I have previously asserted, the sectarian divisions on this island are promoted by the established elites, North and South and in Britain, to maintain political, economic, social and religious control over working class people. When class interests are pushed to the fore, sectarian division are forced into the background - and this will be amply demonstrated with the general strike of public sector workers, Catholics and Protestants, in the North tomorrow. Sport is one of the fields of endeavour where sectarian division among working class people can be overcome - for example, despite the 85 years of conflict in Israel/Palestine there are soccer teams in the Israeli league that draw their support from both the Jewish and the Palestinian communities.

That's all very well, but it fails to get to the core of the matter, namely whether Stephen Kenny's successor should stick with trying to play out from the back, or take a more pragmatic view of the players at his disposal and go more direct.

In my view an all-Ireland soccer team could contribute to demonstrating the common interests of working class people on this island and assist with alleviating the sectarian divisions that still exist.

Clearly you're a disciple of those other Titans of the Working Class Struggle, Comrades Blair and Campbell:
https://foot.ie/threads/289172-Belfa...31#post2172331

Unfortunately - the reality is that politics and religion in the North do matter. For me the success at international level is very much secondary. I would not and do not advocate an all-Ireland team without an all-island league. Creating an all-island league with teams from North and South would (along with serving important political aims - i.e. demonstrating common working class interests) significantly improve the development of soccer on this island - stronger teams, bigger attendances, new rivalries etc. It could create a situation whereby Irish players across the island would find it more attractive to remain here and play for Irish teams - where Irish soccer fans support Irish rather than English (or Scottish) teams etc. - where teams on the island could develop to the point of being able to compete in European competitions - where the island could have a regularly participant in the CL group stage, teams in the Europa League and Conference etc.

You are Keiran Lucid and I claim my five Euro!
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...iner-1.4060731

And I must say, I like your style. I mean, we could build on the runaway success of the All-Island Cup, which itself followed on from that triumph of unity and inclusivity that was the Setanta Cup, which itself evolved from the Great Progenitor, the Blaxnit Cup (google it).

What could possibly go wrong!

At the end of the day all sport is rooted in politics - unfortunately the people who run sporting organisations tend to come for the upper echelons of society and they operate in the interests of the money and the money men. The only place that working class people can exert an influence is on the pitch and on the terraces and they should do so based on the common interests of the working class, not in the interests of those who promote working class divisions and whom benefit from the same division.

Ah right. Tell me, when we finally reach the Socialist Utopia of an All-Ireland National Team and League etc, will the people who run it now all be chosen from the Proletariat for their impeccable working class credentials?

And what will happem to the Plebs who formerly ran the FAI and IFA - maybe build a Gulag on the Blasket Islands?

What was John Delaney, 'Man of the People' or just another exploitative (nearly) Accountant?

And as a homeowning University graduate who went to a rugby-playing school and who likes to rustle up a fine Risotto of a weekend to go with my bottle of Sauvignon Blanc, will there be any place for me? You know, what with my being irredeemably middle-class and all that?

Anyhow, I suspect you are someone who views everything, including football, thrpough the prism of your politics. Whereas me, I go to football to get away from all that stuff.

You know, cheer my team and boo the other team, then go for a couple of (working class?) pints afterwards, maybe even in the company of some opposition supporters.

[EalingGreen]

Have to agree re a United Ireland football team uniting working class men of every religion.

And what about the women, eh?

Including ones like these:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lh2y1R11Em4

The sport of Boxing is where you can see this the most, the only sport on this Island where lads from every single type of background mix and become good friends. You have lads like Carl Frampton from a tough loyalist estate in Belfast become team mates with lads like Davey Joyce (Irish traveller) and Paddy Barnes from Ardoyne and Kenny Egan from Dublin with support from the whole Island.

Ah sure it's all grand - at least so long as the IABA manages to keep a lid on things:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/inqu...sment-1.539793
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30960038

Btw, you do know that Boxing and Football are two different sports, don't you?

It's a real shame we don't have a United Ireland side. End of the day we are all Irish and have more in common than some might like to think.

As I was just saying to some of my English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish friends:
"It's a real shame we don't have a United Kingdom side. End of the day we are all British and have more in common than some might like to think."

[tetsujin1979]

take it to the inboxes lads, almost nothing of this conversation relates to players who are potentially eligible for the Republic of Ireland side

[Bungle]

From having lived in a few different parts of England, the problem with a lot of these lads is that they are living in areas that aren't as Irish as they used to be - to be fair someone like Grealish seems to come from a very Irish area. I actually have no doubt that both Rice, Grealish and the nine or ten others in the England squad who are eligible for us are proud of their heritage, but if all they see is excitement around them about the England team, you can't blame them for buying into it. When we do eventually have a good team again, I'd like to see the kids from different backgrounds buying into it, so we can't have it both ways.

Someone like Aldridge is the opposite to a lot of these lads. For starters he played in an era when we had world class players, so even if he joined the band when the good times were kicking off, the feeling in England at the time was very much them being baffled at how we weren't qualifying for tournaments on a regular basis. A football legend in Jack was always going to make a difference especially in those days. Secondly, while his ancestry was a bit back, he came from a place that is culturally Irish. An old Scouse mate of mine's grandson was called up for the England underage team earlier this year and he was saying none of them give a ****, but they see it's good for his development. Six of his great grandparents are Irish so we might have another inclusion in a Balls.ie what if Irish team.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Well - well - well - talk about all the cliches

Both Grealish and Rice have an Irish heritage, but that is by no means all of their make-up, since they are at least as much English as they are Irish.
And if you look at Grealish, as someone who has no "dog in the fight", it seems to me that he used ROI to gain experience at a higher age group than he would have got with England. The fact that he switched when he did, to play oin one last U-21 tournament, and even after he was being offered a place in the senior squad by Martin O'Neill, indicates to me where his real preference lay.
As for Rice, he developed much later than JG, such that when he was first being considered for a senior cap with ROI, even WHU fans wouldn't have given him a chance of playing for England. Of course that was to change not much more than a season or two later.
As for "pressure from both agents and their clubs", that may well have been a factor, but you cannot assume that it was the only one, never mind the decisive one, even if it comforts you to imagine so.

There is zero evidence that either Grealish or Rice were engaged in using Ireland to get into the English set-up.

Money dominates football and it is the key factor in why so many players opt for certain international teams - and there are hundreds of them - and it is particularly a problem in relation to players from neo-colonial countries. And the current rules operated by FIFA actually work against the neo-colonial countries.

And does the agent tell Jack's oul fella how to dress as well?

Once you go down the rabbit-hole

Yet when Michael O'Neill made that very same point (when eg the FAI sought to cap teenagers who had already played for NI at, say, U-17 level, thereby using up their one permitted switch), he got pelters from ROI fans, including some on this forum.

I will repeat again - no kid should be forced into making decisions before they are old enough to make a mature decision (and that decision should not be influenced by money, agents or clubs).

me, that's sad.

What is sad about it - having an all-island team would be something to celebrate.

"Team GB " is a marketing brand, copyrighted and registered in 1999 as a trademark with the Patent Office.

Meanwhile, here is what the BOA says on its website:
"The British Olympic Association (BOA) is the National Olympic Committee (NOC) for Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The BOA is responsible for the participation in the Olympic Games of athletes from GB and NI, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and UK Overseas Territories which do not have their own National Olympic Committee."

Personally I'd kinda prefer if it was "Team UK", but quite honestly, I have rather more important things to worry about. Which reminds me, I must rearrange my sock drawer this afternoon, it's getting into a bit of a state.

So - after you bring up the topic you decide to be flippant in your response.

As someone who has lived in England for four decades, I wonder how I've managed to survive all this time.

Maybe you should give yourself more credit

Though at least I never had it so bad as this poor sod:
https://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-7-5913676-Nov2022/

The sectarian divide runs deep - and not always along straight lines.

But still, thank you for the history lesson, it's always good to be told stuff you never knew.

You're welcome.

"Almost exclusively working class" is it?

Absolutely

Stay on the line caller, you might be interested to hear from our next studio guest, the Twenty First Century...

"The share of the population that lives in middle-income households in Ireland increased by about 9 percentage points, from 60% in 1991 to 69% in 2010. The share in lower-income households fell 7 percentage points, and the upper-income share decreased 1 percentage point."
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/i...-middle-class/

And he hauls out a pro-big-business American lobby group to prove his point.

Class affiliation is not based on income - but on the relationship with the means of production.

That's all very well, but it fails to get to the core of the matter, namely whether Stephen Kenny's successor should stick with trying to play out from the back, or take a more pragmatic view of the players at his disposal and go more direct.

Has nothing to do with this discussion

Clearly you're a disciple of those other Titans of the Working Class Struggle, Comrades Blair and Campbell:
https://foot.ie/threads/289172-Belfa...31#post2172331

Excuse me while I get my barf bag

You are Keiran Lucid and I claim my five Euro!
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...iner-1.4060731

And I must say, I like your style. I mean, we could build on the runaway success of the All-Island Cup, which itself followed on from that triumph of unity and inclusivity that was the Setanta Cup, which itself evolved from the Great Progenitor, the Blaxnit Cup (google it).

What could possibly go wrong!

Oh yea - I'm touting a proposal from a chancer with vulture fund backing trying to make a quick buck - pull the other one.

Ah right. Tell me, when we finally reach the Socialist Utopia of an All-Ireland National Team and League etc, will the people who run it now all be chosen from the Proletariat for their impeccable working class credentials?

And what will happem to the Plebs who formerly ran the FAI and IFA - maybe build a Gulag on the Blasket Islands?

What was John Delaney, 'Man of the People' or just another exploitative (nearly) Accountant?

I would suggest that it should be run by the coaches, players and fans - but that is just me.

And you can't really call John Delaney a pleb.

And as a homeowning University graduate who went to a rugby-playing school and who likes to rustle up a fine Risotto of a weekend to go with my bottle of Sauvignon Blanc, will there be any place for me? You know, what with my being irredeemably middle-class and all that?

I hate rugby - but am partial to a glass of Chianti myself - but are you sure you are 'irredeemably middle-class? I am holding out hope for the emergence of your working class consciousness.

Anyhow, I suspect you are someone who views everything, including football, thrpough the prism of your politics. Whereas me, I go to football to get away from all that stuff.

Most people do - except the politics usually gets in the way when it comes to sport.

You know, cheer my team and boo the other team, then go for a couple of (working class?) pints afterwards, maybe even in the company of some opposition supporters.

And wouldn't it be great to have more people at games, bigger rivalries and your couple of pints - without the money undermining your enjoyment.

[Jolly Red Giant]

As I was just saying to some of my English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish friends:
"It's a real shame we don't have a United Kingdom side. End of the day we are all British and have more in common than some might like to think."

And here is the issue - what you have in common is not an affiliation to an imperialist entity, apart from the fact that your English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish friends are all victims of that entity.