QuoteYep and this is were it gets confusing. Ciaran Clark who was also an underage England player , is legal even without the Irish passport at the time of playing for England, because his mum was born in IrelandOriginally Posted by Olé Olé
You are correct, under the current FIFA interpretation Robinson almost certainly doesn't qualify for us. No going back on that one now though.
We really should be challenging the wording of the rule though. Too late now for Johansson, but not for Crowley and who knows who else might be caught by it in future.
Yep and this is were it gets confusing. Ciaran Clark who was also an underage England player , is legal even without the Irish passport at the time of playing for England, because his mum was born in Ireland
Ted...... I’m going mad!!
You might be right, but I personally think it is a matter of Application, not Interpretation.
That is, FIFA won't have been aware that a 2nd generation Irish player's nationality isn't effected until he/she is entered on the Register of Foreign Births, and so won't have acted in previous cases, until the Luxembourg FA brought this to their attention in the case of RJ.
At which point, FIFA had no option but to declare RJ ineligible, since the wording is unambiguous.
As I suggest above, perhaps they slipped through the net?
Or possibly the games they played didn't disqualify them, since it is only competitive U-17 and U-19 games which count towards eligibility, not eg schoolboy, U-16 or U-18? (I don't know their cap details)
No, but FIFA weren't just considering 15 y.o.'s, this applies to players of all ages, from every continent, but esp players born in Western European countries, who were now much freer to play for the former colonies from which their ancestry derived.
I have a feeling one of the first players to take advantage of the new rules (possibly even a test case?) was Freddie Kanoute. He played for his country of birth, France, up to U-21 level, but was ignored for the senior team for the next 5 years.
He eventually was allowed to switch to Mali, his father's country of birth, making his debut when he was 26 or 27.
Callum O'Hare released by Villa and has signed with Coventry permanently following his loan there. He'll be a championship player next season at 22. I know he was mentioned on here beforem did a quick search and couldn't find much, is he definitely eligible?
Looks like O'Hare has played underage for England. If he qualifies through the granny rule he may well no longer be eligible, similar to Crowley.
Was the underage game competitive?
If so he is gone unless he had an Irish passport at the time
Think he would be fine as his only cap was for England u20s in what is essentially a friendly tournament. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017...0_Elite_League
The only u20 tournament that is binding for EU Nations is the FIFA U20 World Cup.
isn't the issue that at the time he played for England he must also have had Irish nationality? That nationality is conferred by birthright if born to an Irish parent born in Ireland, but not if born to an Irish parent born outside of Ireland, and hence needs to achieve nationality via Irish grandparents? So it matters whether it's his parents or grandparents, or where his parents were born.
I was born in UK, to Irish-born Irish citizens. I have only ever held an Irish passport. Yet my UK-born kids needed to be "Foreign Birth Register"ed to get their Irish passports, and to get them on the FBR I needed my parents' birth certs & marriage certs. Horrible process.
I got my kids on the FBR about a month after Brexit! And with the FBR certification I applied for their passports which arrived within about 2 weeks.
If one of them had played for England at any age level before they were on the FBR they'd no longer be Irish eligible. In think we may have capped players who technically didn't qualify because of not being FBRed, but nobody noticed until the Ryan Johansson case.
Is that right? I haven't been paying full attention.
Assuming mother wasn't born in Ireland then yes you'd be correct. It's a ridiculous application of the law that was never intended and we need to change it. Either on our end or FIFA's.
it's a bizzare sight to see you EG spout on about FIFA eligibility mattersStick around and you might brush off the rusty bits.
There was never any issue about Fredddy K transferring from France to Mali after 2003. The rules were changed late 2003 allowing a player to switch national teams (a one time switch) as long as he/she had not a played senior competitive game. Freddy was totally eligible to switch fron France to Mali
Once the rules were changed in 2003, most African nations with eligible players in Europe came calling for them
The Africa Nations Cup was held at Jan & Feb 2004. eg. Algeria and Guinea both called up 13 players each from France and Belgium, on and so forth.
Quinton Fortune (Man U) declined a call up to SA.
On another point
FIFA are quite aware of their own eligibility rules and require full paperwork to be lodged to support an application of a player who wishes to switch countries.FIFA won't have been aware that a 2nd generation Irish player's nationality isn't effected until he/she is entered on the Register of Foreign Births, and so won't have acted in previous cases, until the Luxembourg FA brought this to their attention in the case of RJ.
Is there any country on the planet that offers automatic citizenship to the offspring of a single grandparent?
One such document required by FIFA is an official letter from the FA of the country he/she is switching from, outlining in detail all games played for that country.
Then they have the passport of the player and documentation as to when that player acquired the nationality of the country he/she want to switch to. It is a simple matter for FIFA to compare dates to check whether the player had the nationality of that country before playing competitivly for the first country .
Assuming Callum had not his irish nationality before playing for England, either FIFA fckd up when it came to Callum's application (unlikely imo), or the FAI did not present full disclosure in regards to that document from the English FA, or it was the powerful hidden hand of John Delaney exercising balance in magical and wonderous ways.
Last edited by geysir; 15/07/2020 at 7:53 PM.
So how does one prove past citizenship? A valid from on a passport covering the time he or she represented another country?
It would be based on the date of entry on the Irish Foreign Birth Register. That's the date that an individual who qualifies through a grandparent becomes an Irish citizen. That date would need to pre date the first competitive appearance for another country.
Once added to the register the individual is sent a certificate confirming the date of citizenship which they would use to prove their eligibility.
Last edited by Eirambler; 15/07/2020 at 10:56 PM.
I suppose just a copy of the irish passport alone would also suffice FIFA's purposes, if the date of issue predated the competitive appearance for the first country.
I just read that John Aldridge qualified to play for Ireland through a great grandparent?
How was he allowed play for us?
nope, grandparent from Athlone
https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/...athlone-roots/
Someone needs to change his wiki page
Actually Wikipedia is right for once, it was through a great grandparent that he qualified. His great grandmother was born in Athlone but moved to England at a young age.
At the time he was considered to be eligible under the great-grandparent rule, which was changed by FIFA in 1986, the year of his Ireland debut, to what we now know as the granny rule.
So he just got in in time. If he had declared for Ireland even a year later he would not have been eligible.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/fai...-26108028.html
Last edited by Eirambler; 23/07/2020 at 4:29 PM.
We would have missed his ‘mild ‘ interaction with the Fifa Official in the USA amongst other things. He took awhile to get going on the goal front for us in a style that did not particularly suit him but he stuck with it and had a more than decent Irish Career in the End. He put the effort in.
Thanks Aldo.
It really is a case of the 'winner' writes history.
In the first Charlton campaign all the way through to the finals, we had one of the best full-backs, one of the best centre-backs, two of the best central midfielders, one of the best left and right-wingers and one of the best strikers in England, in our side. It would not be an exaggeration to say that McGrath, Hughton, Moran, Whelan, McGrath, Lawrenson, Sheedy, Houghton and Aldridge were in the top 5 of their position in England at the time. And yet we played a style that was to the strength of none of them, yet we'd our greatest success ever as an International team.
It's baffling.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
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