Potentially eligible players thread

**liamoo11** · 18/12/2019, 7:13 PM

https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-38794893.html this sets out the arguments well all of which have been well aired on here

**elatedscum** · 19/12/2019, 2:20 AM

Fair play to Johansson.

Things I’d say:

1) FIFA are wrong, if not legally then morally. A 15 year old child who has been lied to by the Luxembourg FA cannot make an informed decision.

2) If the FAI weren’t broke, they should be paying for CAS. This decision has plenty of knock ons. In the circumstances, Bayern should offer to pay his CAS case. It’s pennies to them.

3) The ruling as it stands means that Dan Crowley is also ineligible I guess. Which is really sad. Another kid who had no idea the choice he was making.

4) Really stresses the importance of insuring that Liam Delap, Louie Barry and CJ Reilly all have irish passports before March when they’ll be playing for England U17s. Once again, the FAI should really have someone employed to take care of this process for the kids and the parents.

5) The best thing the FAI could do is lobby for a change to the rules. The rules were changed about 12 years ago because Algeria proposed a rule change and the majority of the nations agreed with it. A simple wording change to “eligible or entitled to eligibility” would be enough to solve this problem and wouldn’t really harm any other nations except perhaps Sweden re Johansson. (Perhaps a rule change that Delaney or Mooney could have swung? He joked)

6) might be no harm for Stephen Kenny to have him training with his side in March. The family are giving the sense that they’re anxious not to lose out on him playing underage international football, well having the opportunity of working with Stephen Kenny would be a big and positive statement from the FAI and from Kenny.

7) There’s definitely a feeling that his family are doing their best to get the story out as far and wide as possible that he wants to play for ireland. No harm considering the reaction the likes of Grealish and Rice have received. Good for a young man like him to avoid all the idiots online who would hammer him if he ended up playing for Sweden.

**brine3** · 19/12/2019, 10:39 AM

Yeah, have to wonder about the Dan Crowley situation now. Was he registered on the FBR before lining out for England U16? I assume he was because he was already to be called up for Irish senior team so you'd assume it was cleared with FIFA

**tetsujin1979** · 19/12/2019, 10:50 AM

Crowley did appear in friendlies for the Ireland under 17s in 2013, and had played for the u16s before that. You'd hope he had his Irish passport at that stage, but possibly not.

**liamoo11** · 19/12/2019, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Crowley did appear in friendlies for the Ireland under 17s in 2013, and had played for the u16s before that. You'd hope he had his Irish passport at that stage, but possibly not.

I wonder is it only an issue for fifa if another nation objects like Luxembourg did for Johansson? England would be unlikely to object I would say given our shared history

**Diggs246** · 19/12/2019, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by liamoo11

I wonder is it only an issue for fifa if another nation objects like Luxembourg did for Johansson? England would be unlikely to object I would say given our shared history

The callum robinson sitution would indicate yes, the issue is now going forward and Dan hasn't been okayed.
If we lose this battle we will lose the war on this, as every granny rule player who played for England underage or whoever is now gone. ( none of them will have Irish passports)
I welcome Ryan's legal action, but should our friends in Abbottsown not also been engaging their solicitors as well.

**liamoo11** · 19/12/2019, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

The callum robinson sitution would indicate yes, the issue is now going forward and Dan hasn't been okayed.
If we lose this battle we will lose the war on this, as every granny rule player who played for England underage or whoever is now gone. ( none of them will have Irish passports)
I welcome Ryan's legal action, but should our friends in Abbottsown not also been engaging their solicitors as well.

Yeah couldn't come at a worst time with no money in the fai pot

**Paddy Garcia** · 19/12/2019, 5:45 PM

Was there something similar with Tim Cahill - I think played for Samoa youth team? And then was able to play for Australia after an appeal!

**tetsujin1979** · 19/12/2019, 6:00 PM

Yeah, he played when he was 14 or something, but he only accepted the call up because he wanted a free flight to see his grandparents!
Samoa didn't object to his transfer to Australia either

**geysir** · 19/12/2019, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by liamoo11

https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-38794893.html this sets out the arguments well all of which have been well aired on here

I can't say Im impressed with that legalese
There's even an attempt to reinterpret the Irish citizenship laws, that just because Ryan was entitled to apply for Irish citizenship is claimed to be the equivalent of actually being an Irish citizen.
And the fact that Ryan's parents were aware of his decision to switch to Luxembourg nullifies the exploitation argument.
That just leaves the fickleness of youth argument, which is a truth but not a defence for malfeasance.

**Stuttgart88** · 20/12/2019, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by liamoo11

England would be unlikely to object I would say given our shared history

Brexit, Soldier F...

**Kingdom** · 22/12/2019, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I don't think I can stress this enough - he's 15.
If he plays for us, well and good. If not, then I wish him nothing but success wherever he does play.

The other thing, his Da is Albanian. That usually is a heavy pull, not entirely different to some of our golden generation 2g'ers.

**Kingdom** · 22/12/2019, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Years ago I argued this ......birth has been registered?

Nationality is murky and undefinable in this modern world we live in. Brexit has been a great example of this.

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Things I’d say:

1) FIFA are wrong, if not legally then morally. A 15 year old child who has been lied to by the Luxembourg FA cannot make an informed decision.

In cases affecting underage internationals, Agreed. He's a child making a life-defining decision, without access to the full facts. Whether that is the fault of his parents or the Luxembourg FA or Bayern is irrelevant. Adults charged with doing right by him have f'd up, either deliberately or by accident.

2) If the FAI weren’t broke, they should be paying for CAS. This decision has plenty of knock ons. In the circumstances, Bayern should offer to pay his CAS case. It’s pennies to them.

Great shout. Also, to point out, that the Irish diplomatic service do incredible work. absolutely incredible, and the network is off the charts. While the FAI might be broke, bayern certainly are not, and I'm sure the FAI/Dept of Sport could speak with their colleagues in DFA and raise the subject with the Embassy in Berlin, and take it from there.

4) Really stresses the importance of insuring that Liam Delap, Louie Barry and CJ Reilly all have irish passports before March when they’ll be playing for England U17s. Once again, the FAI should really have someone employed to take care of this process for the kids and the parents.

This I don't agree with - the premise anyway. We need to have someone who has access to all the facts and legislation and how to do the process, but the decision and the process needs to be initiated by the Parents/individual him/herself. It is citizenship we're talking about here. Think of how hett up some folk at home get when non_nationals are given citizenship (rightly).

5) The best thing the FAI could do is lobby for a change to the rules. The rules were changed about 12 years ago because Algeria proposed a rule change and the majority of the nations agreed with it. A simple wording change to “eligible or entitled to eligibility” would be enough to solve this problem and wouldn’t really harm any other nations except perhaps Sweden re Johansson. (Perhaps a rule change that Delaney or Mooney could have swung? He joked)

Trust me, it's not that simple. In the work that I do, legislation gets delayed for weeks, months, over the differences between "may" and "shall". "Entitled to eligibility" sounds loose in my mind.

6) might be no harm for Stephen Kenny to have him training with his side in March. The family are giving the sense that they’re anxious not to lose out on him playing underage international football, well having the opportunity of working with Stephen Kenny would be a big and positive statement from the FAI and from Kenny.

You well know there is no way this can happen. If he's ineligible to play for us (at present) then insurance wouldn't cover any injury. WHile the sentiment would be good, and morally a great move, it's not practical

7) There’s definitely a feeling that his family are doing their best to get the story out as far and wide as possible that he wants to play for ireland. No harm considering the reaction the likes of Grealish and Rice have received. Good for a young man like him to avoid all the idiots online who would hammer him if he ended up playing for Sweden.

Yep, its positive certainly.

Originally Posted by Diggs246

The callum robinson sitution would indicate yes, the issue is now going forward and Dan hasn't been okayed.
If we lose this battle we will lose the war on this, as every granny rule player who played for England underage or whoever is now gone. (none of them will have Irish passports)
I welcome Ryan's legal action, but should our friends in Abbottsown not also been engaging their solicitors as well.

Yes, I think the FAI should have been doing more. They certainly should have been liaising with DFA when the eligibility changes were made 12 years ago that ElastedScum referred to. It's disappointing, because you'd have to think that these changes would have been circulated to all FIFA members. A simple meeting with relevant DFA officials, even between the two legal departments, would have worked out that this had the potential to be a problem. However there's nothing to say that this didn't happen, but maybe the FAI decided to ignore the situation in the idea that 'well it's not been a problem previously, and nobody has called us out on it before, lets truck on'.

I don't necessarily agree that we'll lose the war. In a way I nearly like what FIFA are doing, apart from the fact that it definitely aids the bigger nations more than the weaker ones who generally rely on this type of player. I would imagine Turkey will be a little nervous in this situation, particularly with so many of their internationals over the years being 2g'ers from Germany.
I'll qualify what I like about it, and I'll preface this by saying my understanding of the eligibility laws is nowhere near as strong as some of you.

Take 3 players: Player A was born in Ireland, to Irish parents - simples. Player B was born in Scotland, to a Scottish father and Irish mother: simples. Player C was born in the Netherlands to a Finnish father who had a Bosnian father and Albanian mother, and a Belgian mother with an Irish father and an English mother. Murky. We all know A&B, and C is a 'dramatization, may not have happened' scenario.
In FIFA's eyes, player C can play underage for one team, and could play for any one of 6 other nations. Hell, he may not have played underage for any of the 7, but could get called into squads for a number of the 7 as a Senior international without playing for any of them and still get called up by another one of the 7. Ensur.
The problem with this resolution is that it's closing the door after the horse has bolted. The other problem goes back to my first point, which is that Nationality is so far mixed that it's very hard to define.

What the FAI could do, in conjunction with the DFA and their missions around the world, is to actually be proactive. Release a short video, on what is required and get Missions to post on their social media channels. Bring exposure to the issue.

Originally Posted by geysir

I can't say Im impressed with that legalese
There's even an attempt to reinterpret the Irish citizenship laws, that just because Ryan was entitled to apply for Irish citizenship is claimed to be the equivalent of actually being an Irish citizen.
And the fact that Ryan's parents were aware of his decision to switch to Luxembourg nullifies the exploitation argument.
That just leaves the fickleness of youth argument, which is a truth but not a defence for malfeasance.

I'm almost in full agreement with you. It's not the fickleness of youth argument, it's the fickleness of parents, erm, argument. A child cannot dictate to parents what they must do.