QuoteYour interpretation of the question is that it ....Originally Posted by Gather round
I don't interpret the question as implying NI fans are nasty bigots.
That could easily be interpreted as supporting the dissolution of the Republic of Ireland team
Your interpretation of the question is that it ....I don't interpret the question as implying NI fans are nasty bigots.
I would have answered yes to that poll, however had the question been phrased
"Do you think the the Northern Ireland football team shouldn't exist?" , then of course my answer would have been no, so the suggestion that question 1 logically leads to the other is disingenuous.
I can't say what the result of a poll for question 2 above would be but neither can Gather Round so it's not fair to say this:
even if that is his own interpretation.
Very droll. OK, as Mary Lou would say you've got a massive mandate, so go right ahead and dissolve before the next qualifiers start
You'd have answered yes to there being no more NI team, then "of course" no to there being no more NI team, basically. The exact wording of the question doesn't matter that much. I end up with no team to support, you justify yourself with the fantasy that it's all some agreed, idealised future as DI put it.
It's perfectly fair and logical, unlike your response above. I'll keep on saying it and you'll keep on deluding yourselves, probably...it's not fair to say this
Last edited by Gather round; 14/03/2018 at 12:05 PM.
Why couldn't you support an All-Ireland team?Very droll. OK, as Mary Lou would say you've got a massive mandate, so go right ahead and dissolve before the next qualifiers start
You'd have answered yes to there being no more NI team, then "of course" no to there being no more NI team, basically. The exact wording of the question doesn't matter that much. I end up with no team to support, you justify yourself with the fantasy that it's all some agreed, idealised future as DI put it.
It's perfectly fair and logical, unlike your response above. I'll keep on saying it and you'll keep on deluding yourselves, probably...
However you've got there, you are under the opinion that ROI fans don't want the NI team to exist. (and logically you think that 73% of ROI fans don't want the ROI team to exist)
2 questions:
1. Are you willing to change this opinion?
2. What evidence would satisfy this change of opinion.
Last edited by Closed Account; 14/03/2018 at 1:53 PM.
And I guess that makes you untypical of the NI population as well, as according to another wide survey the majority there also favour a single team.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-34255124.html
I suspect your argument will be that these are not real NI supporters but a concoction of simpletons, day dreamers and shinners, but who exactly are the real supporters? They are in danger of becoming a self-selected minority whose primary allegiance is to what the team represents in terms of a narrow and exclusive unionist identity. I'm old enough to remember when there was cross community support for the NI team - even when politics and society in the North was more divided than it is today. That situation applied certainly up to the 82 and 86 world cups but seemed to dissipate soon afterwards. Maybe the fact that Ireland (ROI) had a better team made them a more conspicuous and attractive option for Northern Nationalists, but the IFA did little to help. Its dunderheaded inflexibility on anthem, flags and dealing with the sectarian antics of some of the NI support base, sent out a very clear signal that this is a Protestant team for a Protestant wee country. This is sad and tragic, as I grew up supporting NI and still want to see them doing well. I was warned a couple of years ago by a journalist friend against travelling to an NI away game because "it might get awkward." I actually went to NI games before most of its current supporters were born, and as far as I know, GR, before even you were born - so no lectures please.
I think you are just plain wrong about who wants an All Ireland Team. No doubt some of them are nationalists with a political agenda, but many are people who just want to see football stripped of the kind of nasty sectarianism that has blighted it in recent years, and look to sports like rugby, boxing and cricket and think why not?. And before you say, that they are not entitled to a view because they are not real NI football supporters, it's their wee country too.
The Irish Independent are reporting that Bamford is ready to answer the call (although there are no quotes from the player and only quotes from O'Neill saying he's been keeping an eye on the player): https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-36703005.html
Small discussion on that in his own thread, Danny.
He's ours to regain.
No, he certainly didn't mention that change on the podcast anyway. I've highlighted it to him on Twitter, which I've returned to in the past week after a lengthy hiatus.
What bias am I not admitting? I don't think I've ever been secretive about my leanings.Is there any room to join the pair of ye on that pinhead? I've already covered the distinction you draw- playing dumb to avoid admitting a bias.
But the point is that if a merger was to occur, it's likely that both associations and sets of supporters would have to compromise in some for or another. I don't see how it would be a case of your team being subsumed by our team (and associated symbols). I like the fact we have our anthem, flag and symbols - I would certainly like to maintain them if possible and sacrificing them might have posed me difficulty in the past - but I've come to believe that merging the teams (voluntarily and most likely requiring compromise) would be in the interests of the greater good, if achievable. (I appreciate you may disagree.)Very droll. OK, as Mary Lou would say you've got a massive mandate, so go right ahead and dissolve before the next qualifiers start
You would have the new merged team to support because it would hopefully cater for your identity and tradition too. In the past (before Brexit even, if I recall correctly), you said that you could be persuaded to support Irish unity and I'm pretty sure you mentioned Tory rule (neoliberalism and privatisation of services like the NHS) as being at the root of that apparent change in heart. That wasn't a fantasy. Would you expect the NI team to continue existing in the event of this united Ireland? (Now, that might be a fantasy.) If you could potentially support a united Ireland politically, why wouldn't you be able to support its (single) football team?You'd have answered yes to there being no more NI team, then "of course" no to there being no more NI team, basically. The exact wording of the question doesn't matter that much. I end up with no team to support, you justify yourself with the fantasy that it's all some agreed, idealised future as DI put it.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 14/03/2018 at 1:48 PM.
Sorry, hadn't seen it yet.
@JD- I got there by reading the evidence I quoted. Not getting your logic and anyway it's predictable what the majority in that poll want- ie a single UI team playing at Lansdowne Road under a tric in front of Michael D, or whoever. But don't take my word for it, just ask around at the next game
I could support any other team but would rather keep the one I have. No emotional link to others, you'll understand. Generally, I base my opinion on evidence as above. If that evidence changes...
@TP- thanks for telling me what I think. If the people you quote want to support UI teams, go ahead. If they- unnecessarily and vindictively- want to get rid of the existing one then yes, they're as I described. I'd prefer the NI side had wider support but it's a divided society and the present set up gives a choice. All sports fans are self-selecting and numbers through the gate hardly the only factor- plenty of UI teams have a tiny following but no-one suggests getting rid of them.
While I'm always willing to criticise the IFA and NI fans I give them some credit for improving the atmosphere at game and beyond. And while every large group of people reflects wider society I don't blame them in isolation for the Troubles or for being the sporting wing of the DUP or UDA. Your opinions are overwrought and having a memory of football in the 1960s doesn't make them less so. It's lazy rank-pulling. And why would an NI away game in 2016 or whenever it was have been awkward? I mean Marty McGuinness was willing to go to the Euros...
As I said, I have no problem with anyone supporting UI team. Your claim that getting rid of the NI team would reduce sectarianism isn't just naive- it's divisive to the point of being sectarian. Live and let live, baby
I've never denied any rugby or boxing fan an opinion on anything. I don't see them as any more or less sectarian than other groups. I'm a cricket fan so them too, looking forward to a trip to Malahide.
@DI- if what you call a merger happens why would you need to compromise? It's only likely to happen if NI no longer exists. So why would it be different to what I answered JD with above? While I recognise the greater chance of a UI after Brexit, for reasons nowt to do with sport I expect that to take rather longer than you do. During which I hope to keep supporting NI, maybe until I'm as old as TP?
I think you're overstating my 'support' for a UI a bit. As above I can see it happening but won't have a vote and probably won't live there. I will keep up my sub to Comhantas Glas though. I supported Yes in the Scot Ref for the reasons you mention
As I said to JD, there's no emotional pull from a UI team any more than from England (or Germany where I lived briefly)
Isn't an united Ireland team effectively an aspirational cross-community team for all who identify as Irish? And what's the common pull for supporters of the Northern Ireland team if not their Irish identity?
Ireland are making a monumental balls up of their 211 target chase in Harare. Zim were on the racks mid-way through their own innings but we let it slip.
Er, no. There's an already an effective all-Ireland-plus-others team so you don't need to aspire to another one. Not everyone identifying as Irish supports the first team, although I wish it well
Their Northern Irish identity?And what's the common pull for supporters of the Northern Ireland team if not their Irish identity?
What identity...
Their Northern Irish identity?[/QUOTE]
Can you define that? I presume you are currently celebrating Ireland’s Grand Slam. A practical expression of s shared identity. The difference is that the Nortgern zirush identity isn’t shared. It’s unionist newspeak for British.
Can you define that? I presume you are currently celebrating Ireland’s Grand Slam. A practical expression of s shared identity. The difference is that the Nortgern zirush identity isn’t shared. It’s unionist newspeak for British.[/QUOTE]
Can you define that? I presume you are currently celebrating Ireland’s Grand Slam. A practical expression of s shared identity. The difference is that the Nortgern zirush identity isn’t shared. It’s unionist newspeak for British.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Sorry for typos, possibly the effect of recent celebration of Irishness
Well done on yer win lads. I saw the last 15 mins while waiting for the Irish League scores.
Don't worry about the typos, they were no harder to follow than yer other posts on this issue
"Yer win"? Thanks Jacob Stockdale.
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