Potentially eligible players thread

[joema]

I honestly don't see the problem. If he feels attached to both countries, a possibility which you accept, then why can't he sing the anthems of both countries?

Both anthems??

Pretty sure that Holland only sand the Brit anthem, not the Irish!!

[irishultra]

For me its not a nationalistic thing, its not simply that these people don't consider themselves Irish, or consider themselves half irish or whatever, but in international football the point is meant to be different countries going head to head against each other and i feel it should reflect the football culture and makeup of that country, thats what is annoying in the fact that the whole irish team doesnt play their club football in ireland, you can bet there is more of a connection between bulgaria and its team than there is between the irish national team and its fans. the irish national team experience seems a bit of a fabrication.


also if someone wants to sing a national anthem let them, i know the irish anthem off by heart, its the biggest load of patriotic nonsense to be fair, like most anthems.

[geysir]

yep, and the idea of a national team representing their country seems to be beyond quite a few too

Curious statement.
Is it not obvious that Irish international football is a team of Irish nationals representing their country?
Or are you referring to your own particular idea of what type of Irish national should only be chosen to represent Ireland?

[The Fly]

Brace yourself for a long post.

------------------------------

Don's wary of new 'recruits'
By Aidan Fitzmaurice
Wednesday June 10 2009

Givens tips Spurs' O'Hara for Ireland call, but urges caution on rule changesFORMER Ireland caretaker manager Don Givens believes that Tottenham man Jamie O'Hara is the most likely new 'recruit' to the Irish cause due to FIFA's recent rule change on international eligibility.

But the current Ireland U21 team boss warns that Irish football must be wary of being used and exploited by players keen to use their Irish link as a tool to get a cap with another nation, and he stresses that the Irish team should not be "hawking" itself around the UK to bring on board new players who are no longer good enough for England.

For a number of years now, players have been able to 'change' their nationality and declare for another country even after playing underage international football for another nation -- but they had to do so before their 21st birthday.

But following a campaign by African nations, led by Algeria, FIFA last week voted to remove the age restriction, so any player can now switch allegiance at international level from one country to another, provided, of course, he was eligible for the 'new' country and that he had not been capped at senior level by the first nation.

There was a special 'window' opened up in 2004 to allow players to change countries on a one-off basis, and under those terms Jon Macken (one U20 cap for England) declared for Ireland, played at Lansdowne Road against Bulgaria and was never seen in an Ireland shirt again (in fact he was last spotted playing for Championship strugglers Barnsley).

So for the last week, Irish football has been in a tizzy about the prospects of stellar (ahem) names Kevin Nolan, Mark Noble, Gary McSheffrey, Kyle Naughton, Jamie O'Hara, Gary Cahill and Andy Lonergan all declaring for the Republic despite playing for England at underage level in competitive games (Noble and Lonergan even played for England against Ireland in qualifiers), as they are now entitled to do, but any addition of new blood to Trapattoni's squad is likely to be more of a trickle than a flood, according to Givens.

"Looking around the leagues in England, there aren't too many who will come under our radar now and Jamie O'Hara is the most likely to get involved with us, from what I can see," says Givens of O'Hara, the England U21 midfielder who made 15 Premier League appearances for Spurs last season and who has Irish grandparents.

"He has played for the England U21s, but he hasn't made the progress he'd have liked, he's 22 now and at the minute he doesn't appear to be in contention with England, he's not stepped up to the senior squad with them, so he could get involved with us.

COMMUNICATION

"I haven't spoken to the player, I know Liam Brady has as he worked with O'Hara at the Arsenal academy when he was younger and there may be a line of communication there.

"O'Hara is a decent player, he got a few games in the Premier League last season and Giovanni will decide if he can add anything to our squad, if the lad decides he wants to play for us.

"But I think we have to play this very carefully, we have to strike a balance between the need to get good players into the Ireland squad, while also keeping doing things the right way and retaining your pride.

"We could really get ourselves into a messy situation over this, with players coming out and saying they are keen to play for Ireland as they're now eligible, where they may only be testing the water to see if England or Scotland are still interested.

"To me, there should be no doubt about it, pulling on that green shirt and standing up for the national anthem for the first time should be the biggest moment in any player's career, not just a career move and not just a threat to get England, or whoever, to cap them instead.

"But we can't be seen to be hawking our wares around the place, trying to persuade players to play for us, you have to want to play and that has to be key, in my book," added Givens.

Givens stresses the commitment to the Irish cause shown by two Scottish-born players, whose lives and careers in their native Scotland have been harmed by their 'defection' to Ireland.

"Aiden McGeady and James McCarthy are cases of players who played for us because they wanted to, not because it was a good career move," says Givens, who has capped both players at U21 level.

"James came to play for us at U19 and U21 levels knowing, from the McGeady case, of what reaction there might be in Scotland, but he had an affinity with us and wanted to play, which was great to see, and McGeady also had a real dedication to the Irish team.

"That's why I don't worry about this FIFA rule change hurting us, with players going the other way and going back to Northern Ireland or Scotland after playing for us underage.

"Players who come and play for us at youth or U21 levels do so for a reason, they want to play, so they usually stick with us," added Givens.

Some players have worn the green shirt of Ireland at underage level but then gone off and played for other nations, such as Andy Lonergan, Gary Liddle (both England), Barry Maguire (Holland) and Ryan O'Leary (Scotland) and Givens feels that makes a point.

CREDENTIALS

"Ryan O'Leary was involved with us, he played for us at youth level and he had all the credentials as his dad (Pierce) and uncle (Dave) were senior Ireland internationals, but then he opted to go and play for the Scottish U19s and his career hasn't progressed since," he says. Trapattoni will look at the weak spots in his current squad before mounting any recruitment drive of newly eligible players, and while a top-class central midfielder or a free-scoring striker are always welcome in any team, full back is a concern for Ireland, with question marks due to age, injury and club form, over both of the full backs who started the current campaign, Steve Finnan and Kevin Kilbane.

That's why Kyle Naughton, the Sheffield United full-back who has already been linked with Premier League clubs (Aston Villa, Everton, Manchester United) could be most interesting of all, but Givens has already spoken to the Blades man in his role as U21 manager and he does not expect Naughton -- also eligible for Scotland -- to turn green.

"I spoke to Naughton and he was aware of our interest when he played for the England U21s last season, but he seems happy to be with England," says Givens.

cards

"I don't think it's the case that England fast-tracked him into an English U21 cap when they knew we were interested. Their next U21 game was at Bramall Lane, his home ground, so it was on the cards anyway he'd play in that game.

"And I think we have to also realise that just because a player is eligible to play for us through the parentage rule that he will want to.

"Kyle Naughton was born in England so he feels it's natural that he will play for England and we have to accept that," added Givens.

The timing of all this is significant, as the rule change came into place around the same time as Ireland effectively secured second place in their World Cup qualifying group and are in the best position to qualify for a major final for the first time since 2002.

"There must be a World Cup finals around the corner for Ireland. Not alone are the injured making speedy recoveries ahead of next month's friendly with Russia, but so are Irish grannies making miraculous appearances up and down Britain," McCarthy said after Ireland qualified for Korea/Japan.

"It amuses me that people still think it is easy to become an Irish international footballer and easier still to gatecrash the World Cup finals without any regard for the players who got us to the Far East.

"Any aspiring Irish player, born in Ireland or outside, has to prove to me that he wants to play for this country. If he doesn't he can forget about it and I don't care where he was born. Anyone planning to gatecrash the Irish squad now had better be good and hungry."

Words that Giovanni Trapattoni would do well to read and consider before Irish football decides to allow someone jump aboard our bandwagon.

- Aidan Fitzmaurice
from the Herald.ie

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I think O'Hara will be the only one of those 'stellar names' they will go for. Given his age and his apparent earlier willingness to join the set-up, he is probably worth going for. This new ruling must be applied with sensitivity and only where appropriate. I trust in the current management to do just that.

On a side note, I hope this ruling proves useful in allowing Barry Maguire more time to make his decision. The Dutch under-21 side also didn't qualify for the Euros, so that too could be significant. He still remains the one player I am most eager to see joining up with us.

[Razors left peg]

First time Ive heard something from Givens that wasnt complete rubbish, good article

[Deckydee]

First time Ive heard something from Givens that wasnt complete rubbish, good article

Indeed, I agree.

But what Mick said was great! Bang on.

I am curious to see how this will pan out

[drummerboy]

Didn't someone mention recently on here that O'Hara anceltral link goes back to far to make him eligible.

[irishfan86]

Didn't someone mention recently on here that O'Hara anceltral link goes back to far to make him eligible.

When he wasn't declaring after being initially contacted, there was speculation that he wasn't eligible, but I read that he does have an Irish grandparent.

[Stuttgart88]

Lonergan could be a useful option. O'Hara actually played left back quite a bit at Spurs too.

I'm generally cautious about this rule change but if it helps us at the margins then fine. I don't mind if one or two useful additions are made to the squad.

[irishfan86]

Lonergan could be a useful option. O'Hara actually played left back quite a bit at Spurs too.

I'm generally cautious about this rule change but if it helps us at the margins then fine. I don't mind if one or two useful additions are made to the squad.

This is one of those times where having Trap's experience is key. He knows the importance of creating a tight group mentality, and I'd say that he won't be bringing in a pile of these players, especially at this stage of the game.

Maybe 1 or 2 as you say would be good.

Lonergan could be our 3rd keeper if Kiely won't return.

I still don't think O'Hara is Trap's kind of player.

Noble is captaining the England U-21s, so I don't know about that.

In pragmatic terms, Nolan is a lot better than either Whelan or Andrews when he's at his best. He was the heartbeat of a very competitive Bolton side under Allardyce, and if he genuinely wants to play for us now I think he'd be worth a look in the Australia friendly.

[drummerboy]

If Nolan plays for us, you won't see me shelling out money to watch Ireland playing. He has had many a chance of playing for us and refused. So he can go and do one.

[irishfan86]

Yeah I'd have mixed feelings about him playing for us, and that's why I used the word pragmatic before discussing him.

At the end of the day we do want an Irish side representing us, and as you say perhaps it would be an insult to the shirt to see him in the squad.

But this is just a theoretical discussion and I'm saying that I think he would really improve our midfield.

[endabob1]

I like O'Hara, very honest always gives 100% type of player as mentioned can cover left back, left side of midfield or even the centre of midfield, certainly no world beater but he would
A) offer something different to our left sided options
B) provide cover as a squad player fo 3 positions, always handy to have on the bench

[The Fly]

Here's the Independent's take on it.

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Opportunity beckons to pledge allegiance
By Daniel McDonnell
Tuesday June 09 2009


COULD a decision made in the Bahamas last Wednesday have a genuine impact on Ireland's World Cup qualification hopes?

It seems like a far-fetched notion, but the decision of FIFA Congress to change their rules on players switching allegiance between countries may have a knock-on effect for Giovanni Trapattoni and Irish managers of the future.
Previously, individuals who had represented one country at underage level could only change their mind and choose to pledge their international future to another before their 21st birthday.
By voting to remove that age limit, the delegates have paved the way for multiple switches around the world and Ireland will be one country that looks to capitalise.
It means that anyone who is Irish qualified, through parents or grandparents, that has not played a full senior international for another nation is now fair game to be approached.
Several players, who believed their chance to consider their options was gone, will now have food for thought if Trapattoni makes an approach. Here, we have compiled an XI who could hypothetically declare for Ireland -- some are already lost causes, but others may yet pop onto the scene either now or in the future.

ANDY LONERGAN (25)
The Preston keeper is one of the rising stars of the Championship and has commanded Premier League interest with a series of promising displays. Played one U-16 game for Ireland, before deciding to go down the English route and it wouldn't be a surprise to see Fabio Capello take an interest at senior level -- such is their paucity of netminding resources that there was some speculation that Ireland capped Keiren Westwood against Nigeria for the same reasons.

KYLE NAUGHTON (20)
Liam Brady has already tried and failed to lure the Sheffield United star into the ranks and he has since progressed into the England U-21 set-up. Reports suggested that Manchester United are the latest to contemplate a bid for the right-back. Looks like a lost cause but no cut-off point on giving up hope until Capello takes notice.

ANTON FERDINAND (24)
This would be a strange one if it ever came to pass and Ireland came face-to-face with England, and his brother Rio. They qualify on his mother's side, and while Anton made a number of appearances for England at U-21 level, his terrible run of form since joining Sunderland has resulted in his reputation plummeting. We don't have many centre-halves though ...

MATT KILGALLON (25)
Kilgallon, who made five appearances for England's U-21's while at Leeds, was over the age of 21 when Steve Staunton sounded him out. Now at Sheffield United, he has developed into a workmanlike Championship defender who might add depth to the defensive ranks if he was interested.

GARY CAHILL (23)
The Bolton defender could become ineligible as early as tomorrow if he gets a cap in the likely England stroll against Andorra, and he refused Staunton's call at a time when there was no obstacle in the way. Hard to argue with his decision, but a shame all the same.

JAMIE O'HARA (22)
When Liam Brady was appointed assistant boss, he approached O'Hara and said he was 'receptive' to a call-up before it transpired that the Spurs midfielder was ineligible due to his age. That obstacle is gone now, but since then O'Hara has been capped at English U-21 level so the moment may have passed.

MARK NOBLE (22)
Another grandparent link who holidayed here as a child but pretty much no hope of Noble being converted to the cause as Ireland have tried and failed before. The West Ham midfielder is preparing for the European U-21 Championship with England, and is tipped as a certainty to progress to senior international honours.

BARRY MAGUIRE (19)
Dutch-born with an Irish father, Maguire is not quite affected by the rule change but it means there is less pressure to rush a decision. Has represented the Netherlands at underage level, but Ireland want to bring the Den Bosch player this direction. A midfielder who can also operate in defence.

HOGAN EPHRAIM (21)
The QPR winger, who can operate on either flank, has represented England from U-16 to U-19 level but, with a Nigerian father and Irish mother, he is free to consider his options. No time limit on making his choice, but Ireland would need to act quickly.

KEVIN NOLAN (26) *
So one of the great myths becomes a truism. Kevin Nolan is now, finally, eligible to play for Ireland. Two English U-21 caps and his age meant the Newcastle man was unable to represent Ireland when Steve Staunton and others were talking about making approaches. Is worth a look.

GARY McSHEFFREY (26)
Teenage star who never progressed to the levels anticipated. Staunton got on the trail but realised again that a combination of a previous English youth appearance and advanced years meant he was beyond the deadline. Now on books at Birmingham but ended season on loan at Nottingham Forest; troubled by injury in latter years.

And some others ...
Kevin McCann (Hibernian), Matt Connolly (QPR), Darren Ambrose (Crystal Palace), Zander Diamond (Aberdeen), Adam Hammill (Liverpool)
- Daniel McDonnell

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* Surely Nolan is older than 26

[Duggie]

wouldnt want any of them tbh

[Den Perry]

I honestly don't see the problem. If he feels attached to both countries, a possibility which you accept, then why can't he sing the anthems of both countries?

This was a domestic cup competition, not an international match.

If he's singing GSTQ at Lansdowne when we're playing England, then yeah, I've got a problem with it, but give me a break.

I sing two anthems proudly myself, but I think the real problem here is anti-English sentiment, and not the issues of mixed loyalties.

If you're born into an Italian family in Ireland, it's no big deal if you celebrate your Italian heritage. If you call yourself a member of the "London Irish," but are proud of your English roots as well (parent from each nation perhaps?) you'll get ****ing murdered in some quarters.

Have a look at boovidge's post. He's bold enough to admit it, but I bet a lot of those "London Irish" and "Brum Irish" have complicated identities, but would never admit it while travelling to support the Irish team because of how certain people (like in this thread) would react.

I hope you are not accusing me of being anti-english mate., because you couldn't be further from the truth. You are assuming things

[John83]

Both anthems??

Pretty sure that Holland only sand the Brit anthem, not the Irish!!

I misread your post for a moment, so it reminded me of something I read a while back: the Dutch national anthem takes the **** out of the Spanish king. I wonder how that'd work for a half Dutch, half Spanish kid!

[Drumcondra 69er]

also if someone wants to sing a national anthem let them, i know the irish anthem off by heart, its the biggest load of patriotic nonsense to be fair, like most anthems.

Leave it out, my Gran's uncle wrote that song!!

[Drumcondra 69er]

I misread your post for a moment, so it reminded me of something I read a while back: the Dutch national anthem takes the **** out of the Spanish king. I wonder how that'd work for a half Dutch, half Spanish kid!

Sure ours mentions the 'Saxon foe' by name and call them the 'Tyrant', there's a lot of that hidden away in full versions of anthems, I don't think much attention is paid though!

[EalingGreen]

Keown definetely wanted to play for Ireland. Jack Charlton tried to get him onboard but was unsuccessful because Keown had already played for England's u16's and u18's

Re. Keown, I've no idea whether he wanted to play for ROI or not, or how badly. However, he was good enough to get nearly 50 caps for England (despite being completely overlooked by Hoddle). Moreover, he made his England debut soon after Italia 90, when picked by Graham Taylor, who had been his manager at Villa for a period.
Therefore, he most certainly cannot be considered to be one of those players whose motives for representing ROI (assuming he wanted to), were because he couldn't get near representing the country of his birth.
Two minor points: Afaik he never played for England U-16's (only U-18's); also, he was eligible for NI, since his father is/was from Fermanagh, where Martin spent family holidays as a boy.

Giles recounted the story about Corrigan wanting to play for Ireland. Called him the best goalkeeper we almost had.

Re Corrigan, he was an excellent keeper who only got 9 England caps, entirely due to his career coinciding with two absolutely outstanding England keepers, Shilton and Clemence, who got 186 caps between them.
In the circumstances, it would have been hard to blame Big Joe for opting for ROI for the opportunity it might have afforded (rather than any feelings of ancestral allegiances etc.)