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Thread: Potentially eligible players thread

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metrostars View Post
    Sorry, I've got to disagree with that. If the kid is being raised in England, then he is not 100% Irish.
    I'd love to see you put that to the Brummie and London Irish lads I go on away trips with!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er View Post
    I'd love to see you put that to the Brummie and London Irish lads I go on away trips with!
    Drummer 69er, so would I, but I'm also pretty sure that he might be brought round fairly quickly
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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er View Post
    I'd love to see you put that to the Brummie and London Irish lads I go on away trips with!
    I think Metrostars has more of an insight on how Irish people abroad feel than most here.
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    I think Metrostars has more of an insight on how Irish people abroad feel than most here.
    I'm also pretty sure he hasn't been engrossed in an Irish community away from home or grown up in an Irish community away from home.

    Ive experienced the "Irish" American and the Irish in England, and there is no comparison.
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    I'd be very wary about having players who don't consider themselves Irish playing for us for career reasons. However, I don't think anyone has the right to make a judgment on someone elses nationality. I think it has to be up to the player to question if he should be representing Ireland or not.

    As for dual Irish/English identity i've never seen a conflict with it. I've been born and raised in England with an Irish mother and feel ties to both countries. I have a Cross of St George aswell as an Irish tricolour hanging in my room. However I do make a big distinction between being English, which i do feel, and being "British" which I don't. Maybe that makes a difference, although as someone said earlier, playing football for Ireland isn't the same as joining Sinn Fein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    I'm also pretty sure he hasn't been engrossed in an Irish community away from home or grown up in an Irish community away from home.

    Ive experienced the "Irish" American and the Irish in England, and there is no comparison.
    Going by your logic, there's no comparison to being born in Ireland, and growing up in Ireland so that proves his point.
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge View Post
    I think Metrostars has more of an insight on how Irish people abroad feel than most here.
    I wouldn't say he has anymore of an insight into how Irish people raised in England feel though and that's what this discussion was about.

    In fact it's possible he'd have less given that most people growing up in the 70's or 80's for example would most likely have had cousins in England that they would have seen on visits etc and could well have lived there for a while end of the 80's early 90's when there were sod all jobs around back home. It's a lot closer to home then the states.

    The original resposne was a bit tounge in cheek though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    I'd be very wary about having players who don't consider themselves Irish playing for us for career reasons. However, I don't think anyone has the right to make a judgment on someone elses nationality. I think it has to be up to the player to question if he should be representing Ireland or not.

    As for dual Irish/English identity i've never seen a conflict with it. I've been born and raised in England with an Irish mother and feel ties to both countries. I have a Cross of St George aswell as an Irish tricolour hanging in my room. However I do make a big distinction between being English, which i do feel, and being "British" which I don't. Maybe that makes a difference, although as someone said earlier, playing football for Ireland isn't the same as joining Sinn Fein.
    Who would you cheer on in an Ireland v England game were we to get drawn together as kept happening from 88 to 92?

    And, if the answer is Ireland would you cheer for England against anyone else?

    Not being judgemental, genuine questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    I'd be very wary about having players who don't consider themselves Irish playing for us for career reasons. However, I don't think anyone has the right to make a judgment on someone elses nationality. I think it has to be up to the player to question if he should be representing Ireland or not.

    As for dual Irish/English identity i've never seen a conflict with it. I've been born and raised in England with an Irish mother and feel ties to both countries. I have a Cross of St George aswell as an Irish tricolour hanging in my room. However I do make a big distinction between being English, which i do feel, and being "British" which I don't. Maybe that makes a difference, although as someone said earlier, playing football for Ireland isn't the same as joining Sinn Fein.

    that's a good point. I've no problem whatsoever with somebody feeling attached to both countries. I just thought it was stupid of Matt Holland to sing GSTQ when he had played for Ireland (albeit a brief appearance at that point)

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Den Perry View Post
    that's a good point. I've no problem whatsoever with somebody feeling attached to both countries. I just thought it was stupid of Matt Holland to sing GSTQ when he had played for Ireland (albeit a brief appearance at that point)
    I honestly don't see the problem. If he feels attached to both countries, a possibility which you accept, then why can't he sing the anthems of both countries?

    This was a domestic cup competition, not an international match.

    If he's singing GSTQ at Lansdowne when we're playing England, then yeah, I've got a problem with it, but give me a break.

    I sing two anthems proudly myself, but I think the real problem here is anti-English sentiment, and not the issues of mixed loyalties.

    If you're born into an Italian family in Ireland, it's no big deal if you celebrate your Italian heritage. If you call yourself a member of the "London Irish," but are proud of your English roots as well (parent from each nation perhaps?) you'll get ****ing murdered in some quarters.

    Have a look at boovidge's post. He's bold enough to admit it, but I bet a lot of those "London Irish" and "Brum Irish" have complicated identities, but would never admit it while travelling to support the Irish team because of how certain people (like in this thread) would react.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGKyne View Post
    Speaking of naturalized brazilians....
    What about all the ones down in Gort, any of them coming good soon??
    there all going home and apparently one of the kids is a deadly hurler.

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    how can somebody be brought up 'irish'? what does that even mean like?

    why did keane have his child born in ireland anyway? since 2004 anyone born in ireland is not automatically entitled to citizenship. would have made no difference where rob jr. was born
    Last edited by irishultra; 10/06/2009 at 11:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishultra View Post
    how can somebody be brought up 'irish'? what does that even mean like?

    why did keane have his child born in ireland anyway? since 2004 anyone born in ireland is not automatically entitled to citizenship. would have made no difference where rob jr. was born
    I was born in Canada, spent most of my childhood in things like Irish dancing and watching Euro 88 with my Da. We moved home when I was nine and I lived there for my formative years. I may not have been born in Ireland but I most certainly was raised Irish and I'd kill to play for the Irish national team.

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    If this rule had been inacted 40 or so years ago we might have qualified more often. Joe Corrigan and Martin Keown immediately spring to mind. Both considered themselves Irish even though they played for England.

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    lol, my irish youth was spent skateboarding, watching american tv shows and listening to eminem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishfan86 View Post
    I honestly don't see the problem. If he feels attached to both countries, a possibility which you accept, then why can't he sing the anthems of both countries?

    This was a domestic cup competition, not an international match.

    If he's singing GSTQ at Lansdowne when we're playing England, then yeah, I've got a problem with it, but give me a break.

    I sing two anthems proudly myself, but I think the real problem here is anti-English sentiment, and not the issues of mixed loyalties.

    If you're born into an Italian family in Ireland, it's no big deal if you celebrate your Italian heritage. If you call yourself a member of the "London Irish," but are proud of your English roots as well (parent from each nation perhaps?) you'll get ****ing murdered in some quarters.

    Have a look at boovidge's post. He's bold enough to admit it, but I bet a lot of those "London Irish" and "Brum Irish" have complicated identities, but would never admit it while travelling to support the Irish team because of how certain people (like in this thread) would react.
    Good post. I have met Irish fans from England, Australia and the US down the years who have no connections to Ireland whatsover. The coach loads of West Brom fans who turned up to support Ireland at Wembley in 1976. The Arsenal fans who turned up to support Ireland away to France 79 Belgium 81 and Holland 81/82. The English guy with no Irish connections who Con Houlihan used to write about. He not only went to every Ireland game but went to a lot of Dublin GAA games as well. I met Aussies at Euro 88 supporting Ireland. I met a few Italian/Americans in Poland 91 who travelled from Munich to support Ireland.

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    Lads, maybe I didn't give an accurate account of my thoughts on this.

    I moved here when I was 22, now I have 3 kids born in the US. While we are not involved that much with the local Irish community, the kids know their background and heritage through me. We go back every year and each time they appreciate and understand more what it means to be Irish. But it is still not the same as my upbringing in Ireland where EVERYTHING was Irish. It is a different mentality. And just because a kid of Irish descent does Irish dancing or plays hurling, it doesn't necessarily make them any more Irish from those who couldn't be bothered. Maybe it is different in England where there is a larger Irish population and the culture is more similar to Ireland as opposed to the US and Ireland.

    As for singing different national anthems, I have no problem singing the Star Spangled Banner. It doesn't make me less Irish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar View Post
    If this rule had been inacted 40 or so years ago we might have qualified more often. Joe Corrigan and Martin Keown immediately spring to mind. Both considered themselves Irish even though they played for England.
    I don't know about Corrigan, but I understood the opposite about Keown: he qualified for us but had absolutely no interest as he considered himself English.

    As everyone is entitled to their opinions on this thread, can I voice the opinion that anyone who thinks that dual nationality can't mean anything to anyone is a simpleton?
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    Wow this is all so complicated eh!! I live in Australia but was born and raised in Ireland, however I actively sought Australian citizenship and am very proud to have an Australian passport because this country provided me with opportunities that Ireland could not give me. Do I sing "Advance Australia Fair"? too bloody right I do, its the least I can do to show my respect and gratitude for a country that has given me so much. Do I feel any less Irish? Not a bit I am still a very proud Irishman but am also a very thankful Australian and my kids will be raised the same. I think this is probably the normal feeling for most Irish abroad and those of you who don't seem to understand this most probably have lived in Ireland all your lives.
    Help something bit me!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    I don't know about Corrigan, but I understood the opposite about Keown: he qualified for us but had absolutely no interest as he considered himself English.

    As everyone is entitled to their opinions on this thread, can I voice the opinion that anyone who thinks that dual nationality can't mean anything to anyone is a simpleton?
    Keown definetely wanted to play for Ireland. Jack Charlton tried to get him onboard but was unsuccessful because Keown had already played for England's u16's and u18's. Giles recounted the story about Corrigan wanting to play for Ireland. Called him the best goalkeeper we almost had.

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