Bulgaria V Ireland (Pre Match Thread)

Originally Posted by den perry

lads, what time is kick off irish time?

Thanks

18:30

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

He had nearly 20 passes more than everyone else on the pitch (not bad when you consider someone like S.Ireland averages about 30 passes a game!). I'd say he dictated it. Without even seeing any stats Whelan was a 9/10 for me that night. I think we created a lot more against Italy than Bulgaria did against us too.

Those stats do nothing for me to be honest. Fair enough they're there and there's no disputing them but I find them pointless. Petrov took control of the game in the second half in particular. He demanded the ball and used it constructively all the time, there was a real purpose to what he was trying to do. Doesn't matter how many chances came from it, he did his bit and as it happens he was mainly responsible for the goal. Whelan tipped around the place and was more available to receive possession than he had been in the previous matches alright but I don't feel it was on the same level. That's basically because he's not on the same level anyway. Italy allowed Ireland have possession and Whelan was loving it cos he felt more comfortable receiving the ball. A solid 7/10 which was a monumental improvement from his previous efforts but Petrov would have got the 9/10 for me alright. My biggest fear would be that Whelan wouldn't even attempt to control and game with less space as I'm sure Petrov would.

Well stats aside. I thought Whelan was a 9/10 vs Italy and I thought it was our classiest performance under Trap. We obviously look for different things in Whelan because you thought he was anonymous in Mainz when I thought he was motm without his goal.

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Well stats aside. I thought Whelan was a 9/10 vs Italy and I thought it was our classiest performance under Trap. We obviously look for different things in Whelan because you thought he was anonymous in Mainz when I thought he was motm without his goal.

True.

Originally Posted by DeLorean

18:30

thanks

wrt how the other players rate McShane, I thought Dunne's words of praise for St. Ledger spoke volumes.

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Dunne is ok. McShane the only doubt.

btw, we played at home to Bulgaria as Italy played against us. The only difference is that Italy had 1 less attacker but still Whelan dictated the game in Bari as much as Petrov did in Dublin.

eirebhoy you see what you want to see. Andrews was more impressive than Whelan in Bari by a distance. I was surprised he was taken off. Whelan is another average footballer and did not under any circumstances dictate anything in Italy. He'll be deemed surplus to requirements with the emergence of Garvan, McCann or McCarthy over the next couple of seasons. Dictated play my ar*e. What games are you watching?

All this nonsense regarding the performance in Italy is the usual hyperbole you hear on this forum. We were about 2 minutes away from being beaten by the poorest Italian team I've seen in years a team that played with 10 men for 90 minutes with a central defender over 35 years of age that is way past his best and another pair of fullbacks well into their 30's. Buffon had little to do over the 90 minutes considering the situation. I wonder how different the performance would be remembered on here if that last minute equaliser hadn't hit the back of the net. Some of you really do need to wake up and smell the cornflakes.

Originally Posted by youngirish

Buffon had little to do over the 90 minutes considering the situation.

The situation involved sitting behind 2 banks of 4 players, who point blank refused to get out of their own half and were set up to defend a 1-0 lead for rest of the game. And he still had to make more saves than Given.

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The situation involved sitting behind 2 banks of 4 players, who point blank refused to get out of their own half and were set up to defend a 1-0 lead for rest of the game. And he still had to make more saves than Given.

Italy broke and had other chances to score. I remember McShane in particular looking dodgy on a few occasions.

The point is, even with a dodgy McShane (along with Keogh just up ahead of him) we were able to get a stranglehold on that game
No mean achievement.

Originally Posted by youngirish

Italy broke and had other chances to score. I remember McShane in particular looking dodgy on a few occasions.

according to this - http://www.skysports.com/football/ma...947193,00.html - they only had 2 shots in the whole game, including the goal

Originally Posted by youngirish

Italy broke and had other chances to score. I remember McShane in particular looking dodgy on a few occasions.

dodgy or not, we still only allowed them 2 shots on target in the whole game, according to this, including the goal - http://www.skysports.com/football/ma...947193,00.html

I don't think Whelan dictated anything myself but I thought he played an important part in the best midfield performance we've put in for a while. The goal might have come late but it was fully deserved on the basis of the 75 minutes that preceded it.

So what if it was the poorest Italian team in ages? It was still Italy, managed by Lippi, in Italy. We were missing players too and were carrying some passengers. We're Ireland not bleedin' Argentina. I say it was a good performance and a good result.

There's nothing wrong or hyperbolic with trumpeting a good performance YI. You appreciate as much as anyone the need to hang on in while we can as the team will be a fair bit better in 12 months.

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

according to this - http://www.skysports.com/football/ma...947193,00.html - they only had 2 shots in the whole game, including the goal

They broke away on a few occasions and had a good chance in the first half to go 2-0 up (the best chance of the first half) when they hit the side netting.

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

There's nothing wrong or hyperbolic with trumpeting a good performance YI. You appreciate as much as anyone the need to hang on in while we can as the team will be a fair bit better in 12 months.

True Stutts I do appreciate the need to hang on. I just wouldn't get too carried away by a performance against a poor Italian team reduced harshly to 10 men after a couple of minutes especially considering we were very poor (imo) against Cyprus, Georgia and Bulgaria in our previous 3 games.

Don't get me wrong I think that Trapatonni is doing a fantastic job with some very weak players in the team but we'll need some new blood if we want to be competitive in the play-offs and hopefully afterwards the group stages of the World Cup itself. St Ledger for McShane is a step in the right direction but we also need a decent winger, a couple of good central midfield players and a good left back before we will be dictating play against any half-useful teams.

I'm relativly confident going into the game for some reason, and that's basically due to our performances away from home.
Away to Norway: 1st half was one of the better performances by an irish team in the last number of years. impressive
Away to Georgia in Germany: Again looked quite impressive and composed until stoppage time
Away to Montenegro: Good professional display in which we were arguably the better team
Away to Italy: Great performance, albeit against 10 men for most of the games

This is in comparrisson to the toothless home performances against Cyprus, Bulgaria and Georgia.

Played Football Manager last night and in it this fixture ended up 2-2, after we had conceded 2 early goals. A bit like our Israel game a few years ago reversed

The atmosphere tomorrow will be nothing like that faced by Irish teams in the past. Burning torches ala 1977. And no national Bulgarian trumpet playing championships mysteriously held at 3.04am outside the Irish team hotel. The ref should be OK. Come on Ireland!

My cousin was at the 1987(?) game when we lost 1-0 in the rain. He said the army had their guns pointed at them every time the Irish stood up.

Originally Posted by youngirish

eirebhoy you see what you want to see. Andrews was more impressive than Whelan in Bari by a distance. I was surprised he was taken off. Whelan is another average footballer and did not under any circumstances dictate anything in Italy. He'll be deemed surplus to requirements with the emergence of Garvan, McCann or McCarthy over the next couple of seasons. Dictated play my ar*e. What games are you watching?

All this nonsense regarding the performance in Italy is the usual hyperbole you hear on this forum. We were about 2 minutes away from being beaten by the poorest Italian team I've seen in years a team that played with 10 men for 90 minutes with a central defender over 35 years of age that is way past his best and another pair of fullbacks well into their 30's. Buffon had little to do over the 90 minutes considering the situation. I wonder how different the performance would be remembered on here if that last minute equaliser hadn't hit the back of the net. Some of you really do need to wake up and smell the cornflakes.

FInally, someone else who can watch the Irish team and doesn't see Brazil 1974!!

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

FInally, someone else who can watch the Irish team and doesn't see Brazil 1974!!

Daft post & total exaggeration. There have been plenty of measured posts here. Just because none meets your standard of persistent negativity doesn't mean anyone's getting carried away. And if anyone does get a bit carried away it's because it's what fans do.

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

FInally, someone else who can watch the Irish team and doesn't see Brazil 1974!!

Brazil were crap (by their standards) at the 74 World Cup, drawing 0-0 with Yugoslavia and Scotland, before beating Zaire 3-0 (remember the free kick?) and qualifying for the second round on goal difference, a single goal, ahead of Scotland.
They eventually finished fourth, losing to Poland in the 3rd place play off.