UCD

Originally Posted by jebus

They have paid security inside so its not needed

But if a bar owner chose not to pay for security, he could effectively force the police to be his security, couldn't he?

Originally Posted by jebus

It is their job to protect the peace and serve this island's citizens no? If there is a chance that some of this island's citizens will break that peace (i.e. the Pats and especially the Shels games) then surely it is their job to be at said event to do their job? Am I the only one that thinks this? I actually wouldn't mind them saying that they don't have the resources, but I think it's appalling that they ask for a fee to do a job they are already being paid to do.

No doubt that they are paid to protect the peace, but I don't think that necessarily extends to a duty to do it everywhere. Limerick, by choosing to have a football team playing matches, are creating the possibility of disorder. I think it is right that if Limerick want a police presence inside the ground, they should have to pay for it.

I do agree with your point that the "we don't have the resources" line suddenly disappears if they will be paid for it.

Originally Posted by osarusan

But if a bar owner chose not to pay for security, he could effectively force the police to be his security, couldn't he?

Non-point really as a nightclub or large bar wouldn't be given a license to operate by the Gardai without assurances that they would have security and so the Gardai will have done their bit to ensure the peace is kept somewhat on the premises. If he chose not to pay security in a large venue he wouldn't be allowed open by the Gardai. As far as I'm aware there is no such requirement when seeking a license from the FAI

Originally Posted by osarusan

No doubt that they are paid to protect the peace, but I don't think that necessarily extends to a duty to do it everywhere. Limerick, by choosing to have a football team playing matches, are creating the possibility of disorder. I think it is right that if Limerick want a police presence inside the ground, they should have to pay for it.

You see I belive that it is their duty to police everywhere within reason (obviously they shouldn't be allowed walk into a premises without just cause or without permission), but if they are asked to police a public event then I feel they should either comply or decline and give their reasons why. I'm against this policy of public servants asking for what I would deem a bit of cash under the table to do their job.

As for having a police presence inside the ground, well someone here has stated there is normally a presence outside the ground, and even if you don't believe that the Gardai should be inside the ground without payment you must agree that they need to police the streets after such a gathering right? Assuming you do then why wouldn't they have a presence inside the ground if invited to do so to act as a deterrent?

Originally Posted by jebus

Non-point really as a nightclub or large bar wouldn't be given a license to operate by the Gardai without assurances that they would have security and so the Gardai will have done their bit to ensure the peace is kept somewhat on the premises. If he chose not to pay security in a large venue he wouldn't be allowed open by the Gardai. As far as I'm aware there is no such requirement when seeking a license from the FAI

Of course the FAI licencing process requires that you provide security. The checklist the match delegate works off has various boxes to be ticked for stewarding.

Whether paid or voluntary, all stewards are supposed to be trained.
All stewards are supposed to be in place at their stations an hour before kick-off, which is when the turnstiles are supposed to open to the public.
Everyone working in the ground should have a briefing meeting before the ground is open to the public.

AFAIK, everyone working for the club on match nights is a volunteer.
Given the reliance on volunteering, the above is very difficult to achieve on a consistent basis (it would be difficult enough even if people were getting paid). For starters, people live busy lives, and whether it's work or other commitments, along with Limerick's terrible traffic problems, it's difficult to have everyone in the ground for 6:15pm to have a meeting.

The ground may be open to the public for approx 3 hours on a match night (the match itself lasts about 1hr50mins), but that entails 3.5-4 hours work for those working there. This is quite a lot of free labour that volunteers are donating to the club. However, without this generous contribution the club could not survive (the club is running at a loss as it is, so adding extra labour costs would virtually wipe out the average remaining match night income).


All this discussion, which is now spreading over 2 threads, should be in a thread of its own.