A different view on the Stadium issue

**IrelandUnited** · 25/01/2004, 8:00 PM

Originally posted by republic
Minority???

Football is the most popular sport in the state. Including the 6C it is even more so. Have a look at the TV audience figures for All Ireland finals and compare them to Republic internationals. The Beautiful Game wins out every time. Compare the reaction and interest throughout the country between and All Ireland final and an Ireland match in the World Cup. No comparison whatsoever.

Where the GAAH wins is the attendance at live matches. However, the competition from Soccer and Rugby, apart from internationals, is largely non-existent.

Not in fact true. No Ireland international was in the top three televised events in 2003 all of which were GAA. Even the make or break v Switzerland attracted fewer than the hurling semi final. Your complacency is part of the problem. The WC final appearances spoiled a lot of people who are now utterly uninterested if it is not a world cup final game. They are not Ireland fans. they are "event" fans and there is a difference.

**gspain** · 26/01/2004, 8:41 AM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Not in fact true. No Ireland international was in the top three televised events in 2003 all of which were GAA. Even the make or break v Switzerland attracted fewer than the hurling semi final. Your complacency is part of the problem. The WC final appearances spoiled a lot of people who are now utterly uninterested if it is not a world cup final game. They are not Ireland fans. they are "event" fans and there is a difference.

Do you have the figures to prove this?

**IrelandUnited** · 26/01/2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by gspain
Do you have the figures to prove this?

Yes. Check the Irish Times a couple of saturdays back They published the list. If we include the Special olympics which I do not but they do no football events were in the top 4. It was Two weeks ago I think but you can believe me on this.

My point is that we shouldn't confuse World Cup Final "Event groupies" with true fans. Most of them would go for tennis if an Irishman was in a Wimbledon final or for golf if an Irishmman was winning the US Masters. I actually believe the WC campaigns spoiled a lot of our fans who simply do not care about the Game except if its say v Germany in a finals tournament. The innocence is gone I suppose and the true fans remain

**patsh** · 26/01/2004, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
They are not Ireland fans. they are "event" fans and there is a difference.

A bit like those people who show up at their nearest pub for one of Sky's weekly over-hyped "events" ?

**IrelandUnited** · 26/01/2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by patsh
A bit like those people who show up at their nearest pub for one of Sky's weekly over-hyped "events" ?

Is that an attempt to put me back in the dock Patsh?

A bit like the vast majority of your fellow fans but I'm sounding like a broken record.

**republic** · 26/01/2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Yes. Check the Irish Times a couple of saturdays back They published the list. If we include the Special olympics which I do not but they do no football events were in the top 4. It was Two weeks ago I think but you can believe me on this.

I saw that report. This most viewed sports event was actually the opening of the Special Olympics!

A couple of things:

1.) Over the last number of years, soccer internationals have attracted the largest single event audiences on RTE; far in excess of All-Ireland finals etc.

2.) The figures released by RTE a couple of weeks ago do not obviously include viewers of internationals on Sky Sports. Sky has 300,000 subscribers in Ireland. It would be reasonable to assume that a significant number of those subscribers look at Sky's (arguably, superior) coverage of internationals in preference to RTE.

3.) The figures released by RTE do not also include those who look at internationals in pubs etc. For some reason soccer seems to attract a far greater number of viewers in pubs than GAAH or rugby. Strange but true.

**IrelandUnited** · 26/01/2004, 1:06 PM

Originally posted by Conor74
The All Ireland finals are contested by two counties out of 32. We shouldn't pat ourselves on the back because we may or may not get viewing figures that exceed those for the All Ireland. Viewing figures are not the be all and end all, next we'll be comparing ourselves with the Rose of Tralee and the Eurovision and seeing who's bigger. The GAA have facilities that put ours to shame in every parish and every county, bar pockets of Dublin perhaps.

Entirely true Conor and admirably level headed.

One or two comments on republics points.

1 Your assertion about figures "far in excess" of AI finals year on year is unsourced and almost certainly inaccurate. Leaving aside the 2002 far east I doubt if they have any truth this decade.

2 The figures do include pub audience as all Neilsen figures do.

I'm not startying a row on this since, like Conor ,I really do not care but in the interest of accuracy I point out that wishful assertion is one thing and reality another.

**Macy** · 26/01/2004, 1:12 PM

Originally posted by Conor74
The All Ireland finals are contested by two counties out of 32. We shouldn't pat ourselves on the back because we may or may not get viewing figures that exceed those for the All Ireland. Viewing figures are not the be all and end all, next we'll be comparing ourselves with the Rose of Tralee and the Eurovision and seeing who's bigger. The GAA have facilities that put ours to shame in every parish and every county, bar pockets of Dublin perhaps.

Pity the Tribune aren't visiting this week, eh Conor"GAA"74? Besides its that WUM that brought it up, but still I would've thought our "national games"(sic) would get far bigger audiences than some garrison game.....

**gspain** · 26/01/2004, 2:54 PM

I haven't seen stats for last year but 2002 Ireland v spain game by far the most wtached sports event - also the biggest even t on network 2 (RTE1 gets consistently higher tam ratings than 2 or TV3 as it is the default channel).

2001 it was nearly all football with the Iran games and Portugal an dHolland - even Estonia beat the GAA finals.

Special olympics probably was number 1 last year but the Swiss game was the biggest event otherwise.

One year (91) the "broken glass spreaders" hired dimension Ad agency and they added to gether the viewing figures for the 2 All Ireland sand they beat the figures for the top Ireland game by 50,000 and then claimed that GAA was more popular. The same year more people watch England v turkey (in our qualifying group live on RTE on a wednesday afternoon) than the Hurling final.

**republic** · 26/01/2004, 3:18 PM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Entirely true Conor and admirably level headed.

One or two comments on republics points.

1 Your assertion about figures "far in excess" of AI finals year on year is unsourced and almost certainly inaccurate. Leaving aside the 2002 far east I doubt if they have any truth this decade.

2 The figures do include pub audience as all Neilsen figures do.

Have a look at the 'official' figures released by RTE over the last number of years. Soccer has attracted consistently higher ratings than GAA finals or rugby internationals. I am afraid that I do not have the figures to hand but perhaps someone can dig them up? I will stand corrected on viewing figures in pubs if that actually is the case (?) but certainly not on the point regarding Sky. Add in the Sky figures with a subscription base of 300,000 homes and they make a noticeable difference. Sky also don't show live GAA (thankfully

) so the ratings have been skewed over the past year or more.

GSpain is correct in the points he is making regarding this issue.

**Beavis** · 26/01/2004, 3:33 PM

Originally posted by republic
. Soccer has attracted consistently higher ratings than GAA finals

I'm not sure if it's a fair comparison seeing as a further 80,000 watched each if the GAA finals that are not included in the viewing figures.Ireland away matches would do better becuase no more than 5,000 normally travel and the rest of the fans watch it on TV,but with Gaelic Games the majority of the counties fans willl attend their matches.

**IrelandUnited** · 26/01/2004, 7:37 PM

Originally posted by gspain
I haven't seen stats for last year but 2002 Ireland v spain game by far the most wtached sports event - also the biggest even t on network 2 (RTE1 gets consistently higher tam ratings than 2 or TV3 as it is the default channel).

2001 it was nearly all football with the Iran games and Portugal an dHolland - even Estonia beat the GAA finals.

Special olympics probably was number 1 last year but the Swiss game was the biggest event otherwise.

One year (91) the "broken glass spreaders" hired dimension Ad agency and they added to gether the viewing figures for the 2 All Ireland sand they beat the figures for the top Ireland game by 50,000 and then claimed that GAA was more popular. The same year more people watch England v turkey (in our qualifying group live on RTE on a wednesday afternoon) than the Hurling final.

Your assertion that the swiss game was the most popular event of 2003 is simply wrong. Once again I refer you to the Irish times.

Special olympic opening was not "probably" the most watched. it WAS the most watched which personally pleased me even if it was a community event rather than sport.

Use of '91 figures makes my point gspain. '88-'94 was the honeymoon. I remember being in 20,000 crowds at Lansdowne watching the early 80s team in friendlies and I was in a 22,000 crowd v Canada doing the same last month - probably with many of the same people. I am pleased in a way. Despite being a United fan and as such a despicable tan sympathiser I have been to countless Ireland games and the athmosphere over the past few years has been nothing like the old days. The Young wans who wouldn't know a kilbane from a banana are gone because there is no party this year and Rooney has to pay Brazil to come over in order to try to get a crowd for the czech game.

Maybe I'm a 40 year old grouch but the hangers on can go away with my blessing.

**IrelandUnited** · 26/01/2004, 7:59 PM

Originally posted by republic
Have a look at the 'official' figures released by RTE over the last number of years. Soccer has attracted consistently higher ratings than GAA finals or rugby internationals. I am afraid that I do not have the figures to hand but perhaps someone can dig them up? I will stand corrected on viewing figures in pubs if that actually is the case (?) but certainly not on the point regarding Sky. Add in the Sky figures with a subscription base of 300,000 homes and they make a noticeable difference. Sky also don't show live GAA (thankfully ) so the ratings have been skewed over the past year or more.

GSpain is correct in the points he is making regarding this issue.

It is an interesting enough discussion rep. In fairness to the GAA figures the Armagh finals in recent years will have had a huge UTV audience as will any final featuring an ulster team. Look I do not care one way or the other I just like asserted facts to relate to real facts. So many discussions we have in Ireland are antagonistic with people grabbing dubious figures out of thin air to prove agendas of their own and I bore and tire of that. I add rep that I am certainly not accusing you of that but you know the type of thing.

I mean I've only posted about 20 times if that and have offended no one but I have already been called a tan and a barstool fcuker. what's all that about? Is it a sliding scale of purety? the Gah heads call the EL heads tans and they then call the manu and Liverpool heads tans and they then call the rugby boys tans and then everyone feels better? It is Irish nonsense and I wish people would snap out of it.

**Beavis** · 26/01/2004, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited

I the Gah heads call the EL heads tans and they then call the manu and Liverpool heads tans and they then call the rugby boys tans and then everyone feels better?

I must commend you here,very good point.
Some people at Dubs matches detest the 'Garrison Ball' supporters,who are in turn called bigots on these boards,
Even more soccer fans slag of the egg-chasers,who label both of the above scumbags.Funny old cycle.
In the end aren't we all just trying to enjoy sport?

**gspain** · 27/01/2004, 7:13 AM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Your assertion that the swiss game was the most popular event of 2003 is simply wrong. Once again I refer you to the Irish times.

Special olympic opening was not "probably" the most watched. it WAS the most watched which personally pleased me even if it was a community event rather than sport.

Use of '91 figures makes my point gspain. '88-'94 was the honeymoon. I remember being in 20,000 crowds at Lansdowne watching the early 80s team in friendlies and I was in a 22,000 crowd v Canada doing the same last month - probably with many of the same people. I am pleased in a way. Despite being a United fan and as such a despicable tan sympathiser I have been to countless Ireland games and the athmosphere over the past few years has been nothing like the old days. The Young wans who wouldn't know a kilbane from a banana are gone because there is no party this year and Rooney has to pay Brazil to come over in order to try to get a crowd for the czech game.

Maybe I'm a 40 year old grouch but the hangers on can go away with my blessing.

I haven't seen the Irish Times article so maybe somebody with a sub could post it. Now I believe there was such a report but I've since been informed that the Georgia game was the most watched football match. I suspect something is screwed up here.

A football match has topped the sports ratings every year back into the late 80's. Normally only beaten by the Rose of Tralee.

Spain 2002 - Iran 2001, Holland 2000, Turkey 99 need I go on.

Now there is another factor in that RTE1 is much more popular than Network2 simply becaus eit is the default channel for TAM ratings - first channel etc - I believe a number of GAA matches were moved to RTE1 last year. Were figures from Northern Ireland also included as 2 teams from Northern Ireland were in the gaelic final.

I can't find anything for last year but interesting reprot on what children watched in 2002

http://www.irtc.ie/FULL%20RESEARCH%20REPORT1.doc

I agree that 88-94 were the heyday for Irish football but not the end of it. However the atmosphere at home games was dreadful for much of that with far too many corporate tickets and most of us bemoaning the atmosphere of the 70's & early 80's.

Furthermore 23,000 for Canada on a Tuesday night in Novemver was a very good attendance. the Czechs got about 8,000 a few days earlier.

**patsh** · 27/01/2004, 9:38 AM

Originally posted by IrelandUnited
Is that an attempt to put me back in the dock Patsh?

A bit like the vast majority of your fellow fans but I'm sounding like a broken record.

No.
You made a statement about different types of fans, I'm simply pointing out another type of fan.

**Schumi** · 27/01/2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by gspain
I haven't seen the Irish Times article so maybe somebody with a sub could post it.

Here it is!

Croke Park is biggest TV draw
Se�n Moran reports

Gaelic Games: The All-Ireland football final was the most watched contest of RT�'s sporting year in 2003. This is good news for the GAA, whose major events were competing with what was a busy year on the international front between the Republic of Ireland's Euro 04 qualifier matches, the rugby team's highest-profile season in over a decade and Glasgow Celtic's first European final for over 30 years.

In fact all of the top three sports events were Gaelic games matches, which were only topped by the opening ceremony of the Special Olympics.

Coming behind the Tyrone-Armagh final were the hurling equivalent between Kilkenny and Cork and, with a very strong showing, Kilkenny's semi-final against Tipperary.

In all there are four GAA championship matches in the top 10, four soccer games, one rugby match and the Special Olympics.

Niall Cogley, RT� Head of Television Sport, said the GAA audience had increased in 2003. "Our GAA ratings are up year on year, not dramatically but up."

Despite its subdued conclusion, the Republic of Ireland's Euro 04 qualifying campaign attracted good audiences, two of which feature in the top 10. Surprisingly the home match with Georgia was the most popular and ranks fifth.

There were also high ratings for club soccer action, with Celtic's UEFA Cup final against Porto last May standing at eighth, one ahead of the Rangers-Manchester United match in the Champions League, which returned to RT� at the end of last year.

Ireland's rugby World Cup matches were at a disadvantage in the rankings because of the time difference between here and Australia. The highest viewing figures for that tournament were Ireland-Australia (342,000), Ireland-France (313,000) and the Australia-England final (291,000).

Only one Six Nations match made it into the top 10. Ireland's Grand Slam decider with England drew a sizeable 504,000 to be sixth. The best figures for the Heineken Cup were from Munster's semi-final against the eventual champions, Toulouse, which was watched by 264,000.

Pity they didn't give figures for all the top 10.

**republic** · 27/01/2004, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Schumi
Here it is!

Pity they didn't give figures for all the top 10.

Sean Moran is the GAA correspondent for the Irish Times and as usual would want to put a positive spin on this.

As Sky also showed the Republic of Ireland matches, I would be extremely interested in what number of their 300,000 subscribers watched those matches on Sky. My guess is that a substantial number did and thus would materially affect the overall figures for 2003.

**IrelandUnited** · 27/01/2004, 1:28 PM

Originally posted by republic
Sean Moran is the GAA correspondent for the Irish Times and as usual would want to put a positive spin on this.

As Sky also showed the Republic of Ireland matches, I would be extremely interested in what number of their 300,000 subscribers watched those matches on Sky. My guess is that a substantial number did and thus would materially affect the overall figures for 2003.

Of course the substantial number of people from the northern counties who watched on BBC NI also have an effect and Ulster teams were in many big games.

No GAA games were transferred to RTE One so no comfort there Rep.

There are stats, stats and Lies as the man said. I do not intend to continue to be devil's advocate on this thread and I have no credibility as a defender of the GAA since the last time I was at a GAA game was 1984 but whatever agenda we may have the truth is that the combined RTE, BBC and live (80,000) figure means that the AI game was the years most watched live sporting event despite 30 counties being uninvolved emotionally. That is a superb achievement and I'm open minded enough to give them great credit.