Owen Coyle

[ifk101]

Anyone think that Owen Coyle could be a good manager for the future. Doing great work at Burnley.

I've yet to be convinced. However maybe we should approach him and see if he is interested in the U21 job.

[Gather round]

Only NI fans judge their team on relative levels of abysmal failure

I think not. Most fans of most teams who rarely qualify tend to do this, including the Republic of Ireland (one finals of the last seven) and Scotland (none of the last five). Were it as you claim, there wouldn't be any RoI or Scotland fans claiming that they're better than NI, or other third-rate "failure".

What I will say is two World Cup last 16 appearances and a quarter final to boot in fairly recent times is a better measure of success than performing slightly better in a qualifying group but still failing by a distance to make the final

It's a measure of past success. In "fairly recent times" (eight years) you haven't beaten a higher ranked country.

I've travelled all over the world and people in every country I've been to and worked in are more knowledgeable about Irish players and the Irish football team than they would be about Scottish players or the Scottish international team and that includes my time living in England

I've also travelled widely around the World. In recent years, your typical Slovene, Italian or German (for example) fan has only a sketchy knowledge of either team (because they tend not to qualify for international tournaments), although they do usually know a bit more about a country that's represented in the Champs League every year, than one with a semi-pro league.

P.S. I noticed you were very quiet with the rankings postings for the last year or so while ROI were ahead of NI

NI are ahead because we a) comfortably outpointed you in the last 12-game series, and b) are slightly ahead this time albeit having played a game more.

Of course that might change by October, but why get your knickers in a twist? You're not interested in non-winning mediocrity, remember?

And one of your cronies had the nerve to say I was predictable? If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny

Er, you are predictable. You just can't resist digs against Northern Ireland, even when as inane and self-contradicting as above. You can't be surprised when they're challenged.

[youngirish]

It's a measure of past success. In "fairly recent times" (eight years) you haven't beaten a higher ranked country.



I've also travelled widely around the World. In recent years, your typical Slovene, Italian or German (for example) fan has only a sketchy knowledge of either team (because they tend not to qualify for international tournaments), although they do usually know a bit more about a country that's represented in the Champs League every year, than one with a semi-pro league.

The usual selective facts from Gather Round that bear no relation to the previous posts. No Irish International players play in the LOI so I have no idea why you even mentioned the respective leagues. It bears no relation to the statement I made. Also if you want to bring the Champions League into it a number of current Irish International players have played in at least the semi finals of the Champions League in fairly recent years (Duff, Finnan and JOS). How many Scots have? Nearly all foreign football fans know Robbie Keane. I doubt if most could name more than 2 or 3 Scottish players.

As for foreigners only remembering International tournaments Ireland have been in one in fairly recent times with a number of the current set of players while Scotland haven't so again I ask what's your point? It sounds like you are inadvertently agreeing with me. I'm also a bit sceptical regarding how much you interacted with the locals during your cheap ryanair weekend trips away in Slovenia and Italy as your experiences seem to vastly differ from mine and many of my work colleagues having lived and worked abroad for over 10 years now.

Finally we beat Holland less than 8 years ago but alas I'm not surprised you also got that fact wrong along with many others.

[geysir]

My "8 minute" sneer was not at Coyle, for I've no doubt he was proud to get them. Rather,it was pointed at those ROI fans who automatically claim Coyle (exclusively) as "one of our own", whilst overlooking the fact that he is at least as Scottish as he is Irish.

Your "land of 8 minutes" comment regarding the extent of Coyle's Irish identity, certainly reads like one of your typical sneers.
No matter what way I look at it, it reads as a sneer, as if his 8 minutes defines the extent his real connection to Ireland.

You wrote

unless you don't consider that Owen Coyle is also Scottish, and might just conceivably have a greater affinity to the land of his birth, then "the land of his eight minutes"?

There is no indication that you were directing the "land of his minutes"
at Ireland fans. Not even in the context of the whole of your reply.
I can only conclude, that either you have a very bizarre writing style where we are suppose to know what you are thinking, or more likely you are backtracking to make an incredible case for cover.

[NeilMcD]

Anybody think that Owen coyle can make it as a top manager. Seems to be doing a great job at Burnley so far.

[Gather round]

The usual selective facts from Gather Round that bear no relation to the previous posts

Not so. I was answering your posts (completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread, but hey).

No Irish International players play in the LOI so I have no idea why you even mentioned the respective leagues. It bears no relation to the statement I made

It directly answered your anecdotal claim that Republic of Ireland football is better known abroad than Scottish- which just doesn't ring true in my anecdotal experience. Fans elsewhere in Europe just aren't that interested in either (or Wales or Northern Ireland's), because over a decent length of time (10-15 years at least) we've all tended not to qualify for tournaments. Ireland's most famous ever footballer, George Best, got a respectful but brief obituary in German football magazine, in contrast to the reams of coverage in all British and Irish media.

Abroad just ain't that interested, you know.

Also if you want to bring the Champions League into it a number of current Irish International players have played in at least the semi finals of the Champions League in fairly recent years (Duff, Finnan and JOS). How many Scots have?

One, last week. With due respect to Duff and Finnan, their exploits in the CL haven't added as much to RoI's profile in the competition, as Scotland having a team in the group stages most years has.

Nearly all foreign football fans know Robbie Keane

Again, I like Robbie Keane, but steady on. He doesn't play in the CL, and his World Cup appearance was in 2002. And see point about George Best above.

I doubt if most could name more than 2 or 3 Scottish players

Your "doubt" isn't based on anything other than being an RoI fan who talks about RoI players when watching RoI abroad, is it? I mean, fair enough, but it's a bit limiting when dismissing other teams?

As for foreigners only remembering International tournaments Ireland have been in one in fairly recent times with a number of the current set of players while Scotland haven't so again I ask what's your point?

At risk of repeating myself, it was a long time ago and it wasn't sustained?

It sounds like you are inadvertently agreeing with me

No, read more carefully and you'll see I disagree with all your points quoted above. Which I'm only making to answer your digs at NI, of course.

I'm also a bit sceptical regarding how much you interacted with the locals during your cheap ryanair weekend trips away in Slovenia and Italy as your experiences seem to vastly differ from mine and many of my work colleagues having lived and worked abroad for over 10 years now

I went by train to both actually (and similarly to the U-21 game in Germany), so met plenty of locals on the journey, as well as in the pub before and after the game.

I'm not claiming that you're dishonest (although I take your point that as we're two anonymous guys on the internet, the whole exchange could be invented). Just that you're really offering nothing more than anecdote to back up your bias.

Finally we beat Holland less than 8 years ago but alas I'm not surprised you also got that fact wrong along with many others

Most would agree that 1 September 2001 was eight years ago. And you haven't corrected any other 'factual' errors.

Do better. Or stick to what you know.

[Drumcondra 69er]

As for his pride in nearly making the senior ROI squad - no doubt that is so. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been equally (or more?) proud to have played for Scotland. But considering that the Jocks had strikers like Ally McCoist, Jukebox Durie and Kevin Gallagher then available to them, for all his goals with lesser clubs, Coyle will never have been in contention (like Tommy Coyne, the man he replaced in Holland?)

You really think a strike force including Durie, McCoist and Gallagher (and Scott Booth, Darren Jackson and John Spencer made up the numbers in their next finals in the Euro 96 squad) would be more difficult to break into then one containing Aldridge, Cascarino, Quinn, David Kelly and Coyne?

Catch yourself on, I mean seriously.....

Owen Coyle was always up front about his Irish heritage and what it meant to him, I'd argue it would have been easier to break into the Scottish squad myself.

[NeilMcD]

Well done lads for ruining a good thread about Owen Coyle

[geysir]

Looks to be an evenly enough matched play off final according to the bookies.
Burnley 9/5
SU 6/4

[EalingGreen]

You really think a strike force including Durie, McCoist and Gallagher (and Scott Booth, Darren Jackson and John Spencer made up the numbers in their next finals in the Euro 96 squad) would be more difficult to break into then one containing Aldridge, Cascarino, Quinn, David Kelly and Coyne?

Catch yourself on, I mean seriously.....

Owen Coyle was always up front about his Irish heritage and what it meant to him, I'd argue it would have been easier to break into the Scottish squad myself.

I didn't claim that it was easier for Coyle to get a full ROI cap than a Scotland one. I merely pointed out that realistically, he wasn't ever close to getting a full Scotland cap, which might partly have explained his "choice" of ROI. That's all.

[EalingGreen]

Well done lads for ruining a good thread about Owen Coyle

Oh get off your high horse. There is nothing stopping anyone from making non-partisan posts if they like (see e.g. my own posts #8 and #23, for instance).

As for the more "controversial" posts to which you seem to take exception, these seem to have been provoked by my making the (surely tenable) point that it may be presumptious to assume that if Coyle continues to develop as a manager, he would be tempted to manage ROI one day.

If nothing else, he may well be equally/more tempted by the Scotland job, if he's tempted by international management at all - a debateable enough notion, when you look at others like David Moyse or Martin O'Neill, who could have walked into a job with Scotland/ROI/NI any time they liked.

[geysir]

I didn't claim that it was easier for Coyle to get a full ROI cap than a Scotland one. I merely pointed out that realistically, he wasn't ever close to getting a full Scotland cap, which might partly have explained his "choice" of ROI. That's all.

More tosh,
as pointed out earlier you know féck all about Coyle.
Donegal parents, 7 siblings, grew up in Donegal lite in the Gorbals. He was wanted by Scotland but chose Ireland. He chose Ireland without hesitation according to the man himself. Both choices were on the table at the same time.
His first game was for Ireland V Scotland in the u21s.

[youngirish]

More tosh,
as pointed out earlier you know féck all about Coyle.
Donegal parents, 7 siblings, grew up in Donegal lite in the Gorbals. He was wanted by Scotland but chose Ireland. He chose Ireland without hesitation according to the man himself. Both choices were on the table at the same time.
His first game was for Ireland V Scotland in the u21s.

Shock horror, EG is shown to know nothing about a topic he posts authoritively on while at the same time attempting to get a sly dig in at the ROI football team.

FIFA elligibility rules, Darron Gibson, FIFA's stance on the NI and ROI player situation - how many times do his wild accusations have to be shown to be the rubbish they are before he ultimately has to accept he was wrong?

If you're looking to make wild, unsubstaniated, NI worshipping, chip on the shoulder posts you have the wrong site. I think it's this link you're looking for:

www.ourweecountry.co.uk.

[seanfhear]

I suppose i should wait until after the play off final but if Burnley loose will they be able to keep a hold of Owen Coyle.

To me himself and Alan Irvine are the two outstanding managers in the championship this year.

I suppose premiership clubs like exotic foreign managers but some of them might be better looking close to home.

[Gather round]

I suppose premiership clubs like exotic foreign managers but some of them might be better looking close to home

16 of the 20 already have, surely? Only Benitez, Hiddink (or Ancelotti?), Wenger and Zola are "exotic" managers (ie further from home than Coyle).

Agreed Irvine has also done a good job this term.

[Drumcondra 69er]

More tosh,
as pointed out earlier you know féck all about Coyle.
Donegal parents, 7 siblings, grew up in Donegal lite in the Gorbals. He was wanted by Scotland but chose Ireland. He chose Ireland without hesitation according to the man himself. Both choices were on the table at the same time.
His first game was for Ireland V Scotland in the u21s.

Nice quote from him about that very game here from earlier this year when they played Arsenal....

"As a player I was always in awe of Liam Brady - not just for his sweet left foot, but as a man," he said. "I always remember meeting him when I won my first Under-21 cap for the Republic of Ireland against Scotland. We won 1-0, Mark Lawrenson scored, but it was just as memorable because I got to meet the great Liam Brady."

[EalingGreen]

More tosh,

Donegal parents, 7 siblings, grew up in Donegal lite in the Gorbals.

First generation? Seven siblings? Grew up in an "Irish" area of Britain?

Sounds very much to me like the Gallens of Shepherds Bush. And as we know, all of them chose to represent ROI.

Except the most talented of them, Kevin, who perhaps considering himself good enough to go all the way in international football, chose the country of his birth.

Besides, you still haven't addressed my point about playing international football being different from playing it. Do you know that Coyle has ambitions re the latter?

For as I said earlier, when capable and ambitious managers are offered a choice between a decent club and a decent national team, the former is increasingly winning out - even where the candidate has a natural affinity with the country in question (eg Hughes, McLeish, Sanchez etc)

Unless, of course, the international job is so "big" as to be irresistable - eg Martin O'Neill applying for the England post. Maybe it was O'Neill's "Britishness" which caused him never to show any interest in either the NI or ROI positions...

[Den Perry]

Has the potential to become a great manager, but I can't see him managing ROI, tbh.

For one thing, international management is no longer the pinnacle of a manager's career - see, for example, how Mark Hughes, Walter Smith/Alec McLeish, even Lawrie Sanchez were notably successful with Wales/Scot/NI, before joining clubs which could hardly be described as huge. Therefore if Coyle can manage in the Premiership, either with Burnley or someone else, why would he want to move? David Moyes, for example, could have had the Scotland job had he wanted it, but has never shown any interest.

Speaking of which, even if Coyle did fancy a spell managing an international team as a "stepping stone", I'd imagine he and Scotland would appeal more to each other than he and ROI.

Of course, the sort of money Trapattoni is on would likely tempt him, but Coyle is hardly a big enough "name" for some Sugar Daddy to offer him a package comparable to Trap's. And let's be honest, Trap wouldn't have accepted the ROI job when he was an up-and-coming manager around Coyle's age, either.

EG, you really are a bitter person....can't resist digs at ROI. sad, narrow minded t wat

[NeilMcD]

I just do not see the point of somebody being a member of a forum of their rival I would never join an English forum or a Shamrock Rovers forum. Especially when it leads to threads like these being hi-jacked and ruined.

[Den Perry]

Originally Posted by EalingGreen:
"Speaking of which, even if Coyle did fancy a spell managing an international team as a "stepping stone", I'd imagine he and Scotland would appeal more to each other than he and ROI"



Yeah, you're right, why would be attracted to managing Scotland? After all, he was only born and brought up there. And played for 12 Scottish clubs. And managed two Scottish clubs before moving to England.

Much more likely that he'd prefer ROI, on the basis of a seven minute appearance as substitute for the ROI in a friendly in Tillberg, at the age of 28, following the FAI's exhumation/discovery of his Irish Granny (or whatever). The fact that he was never remotely good enough to play for Scotland obviously had nothing to do with it...

I notice what appears to be some mocking of Irland exploiting the "granny rule"....are you trying to tell us that all NI's internationals were born and reared there?