It must have, I know the FAI have been aware of the situation for a while, though it could be that the club themselves informed them of the situation.Originally Posted by Buile Shuibhne
During the Arkaga regime. Regardless of what the examiner has said, I believe he does have questions to answer. I'm not absolving TC of responsibility mind, that he's only hurt the situation is evidenced by the amount of money involved
Some of it seems to be outstanding from the examinership agreement.
Buile Shuibhne's question is fair. I'm sure it's been obvious to Smith. The question, I think, is what he's done (& can do) about it.
You can't spell failure without FAI
They've run up €300k of debt (possibly less €30k from examinership). That sounds like a no.
You can't spell failure without FAI
Tiktok and other Cork supporters - What is the road ahead for senior football in Cork
Is it inevitable that the Tom Coughlan regime is in its dying throes?
Presumably a white knight (ouch that sounds like an Arkaga) to invest in the club is unlikely in the current climate. You say FORAS don't have the funds - can they realistically acquire them in the next 6 months?
What are the options?
I never say FORAS don't have the funds, just that FORAS couldn't afford to run Cork City as it currently exists.
However, and this is key, the problem there is how Cork City currently exists, not the FORAS funds available.
I'm not Tom Coughlan's biggest fan, but in this case portions of the bills were outside of his control. he must learn from it though, he must tear up the business plan which is not working and he must reduce costs and the wage bill at the next transfer window.
A few friendlies in the summer will help as they helped other clubs in the past, but barely getting by year to year based on friendlies and hoping for prize money is not the way to run a sustainable business.
CCFC brings in enough money to make it sustainable, if run sensibly, Shamrock Rovers are proof of this and with a smaller home gate than Cork City achieve [and in my opinion, the shining light where matters of a financial nature are under discussion]. White knights are a distraction, there have never been, nor will they ever be a realistic answer.
What portion? 90% of the debt seems to have arisen since he took over, and it's tax relating to playing staff, which contracts have all been written since he took over. Perhaps I've picked up something wrong, but from my understanding of the situation I'm not inclined to cut Coughlan any slack over this.
You can't spell failure without FAI
I'd estimate between 1/3 and 1/2 is legacy debt from the Arkaga period that was run up by Arkaga during their reign. It was then either not factored in by the examiner [IMO] or the full amount only came to light post examinership.
Not being funny tiktok, but there's absolutely no way the Examiner missed any outstanding payments. Certainly not to revenue. For that to happen both Revenue and the examiner would've had to miss it, and thats not going to happen
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
---
New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Let's say that in order to get a licence the club has to pay all the back pay to staff and/orplayers that had gone unpaid during examinership. That back-pay is paid and associated tax is accrued post examinership, but you'd have thought someone might have noticed it was coming down the line and could have factored it into the revenue settlement?
I'm making no excuses for, nor am I absolving, anyone. We clearly have serious issues in the current set-up, but we're still suffering the hangover from the excessive drinking of Arkaga.
But that's surely Coughlan's fault for not realising that he's starting out with this debt, which seems fairly obvious if it is as you put it.
I would have thought that coming out of examinership would have entailed a statement saying that CCFC owe x amount to all suppliers in lieu of any and all balances outstanding at the date of going into examinership, which would then be broken down into specific amounts owing to Revenue, creditors, ex-employees, etc. So while the debt may be Arkaga's fault, not factoring in repaying it is purely Coughlan's fault.
I never said otherwise, I just thinks it's important to highlight that all this debt is not automatically as a result of how the club has been run since examinership as some are stating.
It is in a way though. You said portions of the bills were outside his control; I'd argue they weren't - he knew what he inherited and should have planned around that.
However, there is a point that you can't extrapolate from the current position what the debt will be at the end of the year.
Maybe I chose my words badly. The accrual of some bills that surfaced post examinership was outside of his control [and should have been highlighted to him at the time he took over the club], finding a means to pay for them and budgeting accordingly was within his control certainly.
However [and it came up in the Court today it seems from the wording on the home page] the club are claiming that they're seeking to clarify what's actually owed, I wouldn't be surprised to see them challenge some of the debt claimed, they've already strongly hinted they'll do so.
Anyway, I'm not here to defend Coughlan, I'm talking about a % of the debt, not the whole lot, he's run up plenty on his own.
Fran Gavin will find a saviour to replace Coghlan. Similar to what Delaney did a few seasons ago in Limerick. And the FAI will settle the debt with revenue from an upcoming international friendly and the sun will still shine on Leeside.
I think this is the point myself, Dodge and John83 are confused over. your other points about him running up plenty of debt by himself are noted.
If, as I assume*, examinership ended with a fairly definite table of what was owed and what was written off, no debts can have surfaced post examinership. There may have been debts there which Coughlan forgot to factor into whatver passes for his business plan, but the debts can't simply have surfaced post examinership unless the examiner screwed up. I'm pretty sure that at the start of an examinership, a full schedule of liabilities is drawn up; it's the first thing the examiner looks at. This would then be sent out to everyone owed money as a means of double checking. To say the debts surfaced after examinership is to say the examiner didn't notice them, which is highly unlikely.
* - I've dealt with a couple of liquidations, though never an examinership. However, I would imagine the process is roughly the same in terms of working out who's owed what first.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 25/05/2009 at 4:12 PM.
Clearly CCFC have been living way beyond their means since the examinership. They should have used coming out of examinership as their chance / excuse to go fully part-time / all local players / local mgmt team. They coulda put Morley / Caulfield or Henderson in charge and probably still be mid-table. Going for Doolin and signing the likes of Kudosovic was nuts. Even if TNB stumps up the 90k, surely they are going to have to slash the wage bill in July. Id like to see CCFC survice and do well going forward but what has gone on since he came on-board has been crazy.
bhs
Dunno has this been posted..
http://corkcityfc.ie/main.php?action...headlineID=948
Club statement:
Cork City FC is pleased to confirm that Judge Laffoy today acceded to an application in the High Court by Mr. Olann Kelleher, representing Cork City Investments FC Ltd, for the case under the Companies Act to be deferred in order for the figures concerned to be clarified.
With the club now top of the League of Ireland Premier Division, and facing an eagerly anticipated top of the table clash against Bohemians on Friday night at Turner’s Cross, the club has every confidence that the issue will be resolved in the very near future. The case will be heard again on the 15th of June.
The almost 300k debt has built up on a weekly basis since the start of the year, because CCFC couldn't afford to pay Revenue.the club has every confidence that the issue will be resolved in the very near future.
Apart from meeting an agreed repayment schedule (if one can be agreed), what will change to make CCFC afford upcoming payments to Revenue and all their other costs on a week to week basis?
A transient, horrible, fantastic dream,
Wherein is nothing yet all things do seem:
From which we're wakened by a friendly nudge
Of our bedfellow Death, and cry: "O fudge!"
Ambrose Bierce
..and that wasn't obvious in January?
Exactly. I'd hate to lose Cork City from the league but they haven't exactly helped themselves in this have they? The signings they made pre-season when they should have been cutting their cloth just sum up the idiotic way of doing business some clibs in this league have.
Who said that?
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks