CL Final

Originally Posted by hunt4the

Just admit it, your sitting at your computer wearing your treble shirt from 1999 with neville on the back, and blubbering all over the keyboard, from the posts you've put up ur defo a man u fan. My condolences

Believe what you want to believe but I know who I support and its Ireland and Bohs in that order. Just because I am not an ABU which to me is a sad existance for anybody and I would say that if somebody was an ABL or and ABC either. Last night we had the two best teams in Europe and the best team in Europe won it as they played really really well and Man Utd didnt, end of story.

I think Chelsea were able to negate Barcelona because their small pitch allowed them to play the way they did. Last night's bigger pitch gave Barca the room they need to stretch teams.

I know Chelsea held them to 0-0 in the Nou Camp but though I didn't see much of the game, my understanding is that Barca were way better and missed many chances.

I thought last night wasn't a million miles off the 94 CL final.

it wasn't just the pitch. Chelsea have superb, hard working defensive midfielders too

Agree on the 94 comparison.

Originally Posted by Dodge

it wasn't just the pitch. Chelsea have superb, hard working defensive midfielders too

I wasn't saying they didn't, just that Chelsea were able to get at them a hell of a lot more than United did, and came within seconds and some controversial decisions from knocking them out. That said, Chelsea scored early changing the game - United nearly did. Maybe it'd have been different, who knows?

I actually thought Barcelona's play without the ball was exceptional, a real lesson for anyone to watch.

Originally Posted by old git

paul scholes has always been a bad tackler but to call him a hacker is crazy been one of utds & preimer league best players for last number of years and 10 preimer league titles , 2 champions league titles and a few f.a cups not bad for a hacker

Is that a serious point?

Scholes is a great passer of the ball and a superb finisher but he has never shown any inclination to even learn how to challenge properly, not only that but he regularly flies into challenges when he's frustrated (last night is the prime example). He gets away with it because people like you and the ITV team either laugh it off as 'oh that Scholes with his high challenges' or talk up his attributes

Yeah the ITV commentary and Old Git have special powers over referees. Old Git how do you do it.

Originally Posted by cheifo

Did they make any big signings this year? Don't think they have really splashed the cash since they signed Henry?

Dani Alves was a big signing last year, 20m I think. Hleb also came in as well as Pique and Keita. Read elsewhere that their starting line up last night however was this

Valdes (Youth)

Puyol (Youth)
Pique (Youth/5 million from United)
Toure (5m)
Silvinho (1m)

Iniesta (Youth)
Busquets (Youth)
Xavi (Youth)

Messi (Youth)
Eto'o (17m)
Henry (15m)

Total 43m (5m of that spent on buying back a poached youth player)

Van Der Sar (Free)

O'Shea (Youth)
Ferdinand (30m)
Vidic (7m)
Evra (5.5m)

Anderson (18m)
Carrick (18m)
Giggs (Youth)

Park (4m)
Ronaldo (25m)
Rooney (13m)

Total 120.5m

Maybe there's something in Wenger's vision of nurturing youth players and poached talent after all

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah the ITV commentary and Old Git have special powers over referees. Old Git how do you do it.

He constantly gets booked in matches

Was intrigued the way the Barcelona played those passes through the middle with enough power to get through a forest of bodies.

It looked sometimes like the passes were hit to hard but the first touch of the recieving player always ensured they maintained possession.

Anyone see that time it was played very hard through to a surrounded Messi chest high?.... but he took it down , created space and started an attack nearly all in the one movement.

It really was interesting to see the template Finn Harps are going to adopt!!

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Xavi and Iniesta will eventually get the ball wide out to Messi and Henry though (more times than not). Xavi and Iniesta are the heart beat of the side but their goals and attacking menace comes from the flanks. That was not the case last night. Instead it was Iniesta and Xavi constantly running at the two centre backs.

No, most of their attacks come from the middle, with xavi and iniesta running through. Then they either play a through ball to E'too, or messi and henry come from the flanks. Most of the attacking they do they do down the wings originates with alves or abidal. And not often do they cross the ball. No way in hell is the bit in bold true. Have you been watching barca all year or just guessing?

Thought Barca were magnificent last night, an absolute joy to watch.

Originally Posted by cheifo

Was intrigued the way the Barcelona played those passes through the middle with enough power to get through a forest of bodies.

It looked sometimes like the passes were hit to hard but the first touch of the recieving player always ensured they maintained possession.

Anyone see that time it was played very hard through to a surrounded Messi chest high?.... but he took it down , created space and started an attack nearly all in the one movement.

It really was interesting to see the template Finn Harps are going to adopt!!

yessir. and because of the emerging danger of barca's men in possession, united began to look like england. well the slow, plodding pre-capello variety anyway (haven't seen them recently under him). hitting ambitious balls (carrick in particular) to try and mitigate the problems barca were starting to cause in midfield. park was coming inside to help out on messi and iniesta but was constantly lobbed with mathematical precision where puyol and silvinho were becoming more and more available. barca were incredible, i'm a united fan and it's a relief that at least there were no contentious decisions (a la chelsea semi) or too much diving to cloud their superiority on the night.

Originally Posted by jebus

Is that a serious point?

Scholes is a great passer of the ball and a superb finisher but he has never shown any inclination to even learn how to challenge properly, not only that but he regularly flies into challenges when he's frustrated (last night is the prime example). He gets away with it because people like you and the ITV team either laugh it off as 'oh that Scholes with his high challenges' or talk up his attributes

sorry jebus but the referee deceides if he gets away with it and he gotyellow card for challange last night...utv/ bbc will always gloss over english born players. gerrard / fabregas & rooney and numerous other current players could all go into catogory of flying into tackles when frustrated ..
. he must be doing something right to hold down a regular starting place on succesful man utd teams for last 12-15 years everybody knows what you get with scholes great passer / superb finisher & terrible tackler

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah the ITV commentary and Old Git have special powers over referees. Old Git how do you do it.

special powers never worked when i was playing ... must be all the tablets i'm taking now has given me an extra talent

Originally Posted by jebus

Dani Alves was a big signing last year, 20m I think. Hleb also came in as well as Pique and Keita. Read elsewhere that their starting line up last night however was this

Valdes (Youth)

Puyol (Youth)
Pique (Youth/5 million from United)
Toure (5m)
Silvinho (1m)

Iniesta (Youth)
Busquets (Youth)
Xavi (Youth)

Messi (Youth)
Eto'o (17m)
Henry (15m)

Total 43m (5m of that spent on buying back a poached youth player)

Van Der Sar (Free)

O'Shea (Youth)
Ferdinand (30m)
Vidic (7m)
Evra (5.5m)

Anderson (18m)
Carrick (18m)
Giggs (Youth)

Park (4m)
Ronaldo (25m)
Rooney (13m)

Total 120.5m

Maybe there's something in Wenger's vision of nurturing youth players and poached talent after all

better still bet wenger wished he had some of those youth players above

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I wasn't saying they didn't, just that Chelsea were able to get at them a hell of a lot more than United did, and came within seconds and some controversial decisions from knocking them out. That said, Chelsea scored early changing the game - United nearly did. Maybe it'd have been different, who knows?

I actually thought Barcelona's play without the ball was exceptional, a real lesson for anyone to watch.

would agree may have been a differnt game if utd had took one of their early half chances ( but all if's & buts now) barcelona looked very nervous / shaky untill they scored and then it was a masterclass by them and they worked very hard to close utd down & WIN BALL back ..which i thought utd would have done to them .. any neutral or honest utd fan could only marvel at their play at times

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I disagree. Some players like Rooney never had to be taught technique apparently, he just had it instinctively. But that's a rarity - technique is definitely taught, talent is what you're born with.

I think guys like Neil Lennon and Gattuso are very limited in their technical ability and there's nothing they can do about that. Both very good passers though because of their brain.

Players are also limited in how much they can improve their tactical intelligence but I don't think the players from the likes of Japan and Croatia who passed England off the park are anywhere near as technically gifted as their English counterparts.

You can improve your technique but only so much. I'm left footed and it's relatively decent by 5 a-side standards. My right foot is just terrible. I could spend forever trying to improve it but I doubt it would ever even reach the limited ability of my left. I've never been able to put even 3 or 4 volleys together with my right. It's just not meant to be.

Gattuso agrees btw. He actually joked once that he has square feet.

Originally Posted by old git

sorry jebus but the referee deceides if he gets away with it and he gotyellow card for challange last night...utv/ bbc will always gloss over english born players. gerrard / fabregas & rooney and numerous other current players could all go into catogory of flying into tackles when frustrated ..
. he must be doing something right to hold down a regular starting place on succesful man utd teams for last 12-15 years everybody knows what you get with scholes great passer / superb finisher & terrible tackler

Oh ffs

I know eirebhoy, but there' a technique to passing - and controlling a pass. If you have the talent, you can develop technique. You can't just teach technique to anyone - yopu and me for example!

The 2 you mentioned are intelligent footballers, and as I said you can have all the technique in the world but no footballing intelligence you won't be a good player. It's the all-in package I suppose. Balance is everything. Eric Morecambe wouldn't have been as funny without Ernie Wise. I'm not talking about tactical intelligence - more an innate general footballing intelligence, knowing when to show, where to show, who to pass to when you have more than one option....

I'd argue that Croatia were technically more adept at England that night. Receiving, passing, offering -retaining possession in a manner England couldn't. Players like Gerrard can play a good pass (though not that night) but the players around him can't always receive it - heavy first touches etc. Barcelona's receiving was superb, not just the passing - hard accurate passes just controlled with ease. That's technique and is learnt from a young age.

The team collective is important too and can be coached, just as Iniesta said was drilled into him at the Barcelona academy - receive, pass, offer.