It beggars belief

[lopez]

To give an insight into the minds of the more forward thinking (or rather this is laughingly how they like to see themselves) click on the link below, posted by MD (which in case you haven't guessed, is short for Mad 'No I didn't name myself after a well known former Oi band bass player, glue sniffer and sectarian murderer, Honest!' Dog)

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/forum...pic.php?t=1185

On Page 14 of today's Sunday Life there is a full page devoted to the Our Wee Country website. However as you've probably guessed by the title and the content of this Forum, its not exactly positive.

I was alerted to it by an irate Ed but the article is only in the printed version of the paper. For an article, which has a go at the NI fans website, its quite ironic that it doesn't seem to be available in the online version of the Sunday Life.

Unfortunately I can't be arsed typing the article out but it a nutshell its about us calling ROI fans beggars. Apparently that’s racist, although I'm sure its still OK to slag off the England football team in similar terms.

While labelling us as bigoted at least the author (Stephen Breen, whoever the f**k he is) acknowledges that we aren't sectarian but quotes one message which seems to refer to the ROI as a country itself rather than the football team. The vast majority of times, this term is used is to refer to the ROI football team and their fans, in a similar way that the West Brom supporters call Wolves fans Dingles, without slurring the entire population of Wolverhampton.

Anyway the worst thing of all is Jim Boyce’s reaction, its absolutely awful. First up comes this classic "The IFA have a great relationship with the FAI". This in itself is ridiculous. They steal our players, try to get our home game with them moved to a neutral venue, refuse to fly our flag at a friendly in Dublin and illegally call themselves Ireland, but hey that’s OK because the IFA has a great relationship with them. Absolutely ridiculous and if the IFA had any guts, they would simply refuse to have any dealings with the scum from Merrion Square.

Another classic from Boyce is "I know of this website, but I must confess I never use the website". Good to see you’re in touch with the opinions of Northern Ireland fans then Jim. Indeed if he was a bit more in touch, he’d realise that its the people on this website who have worked their asses off to try and improve the atmosphere at Northern Ireland games. We took the risks and the IFA takes credit. Indeed, because I use the term beggar, according to Jim, I’m now in "a very tiny minority of so-called fans". Thanks a lot Jim.

Honestly I can’t make up my mind which I’m more cross about. The article, which implies you’re racist for daring to have some football rivalry with the Greatest Fans in the World, or Boyce’s ill thought out and offensive comments.

Anyway, I’m sorry but I see absolutely nothing wrong with us referring to the ROI team or their fans as Beggars and I’ll continue to do it. I support all attempts to kick racism out of football, but football rivalry itself is not racist.


Well looking at this sh*te you can tell how, as one wag on the GAAboards refers to it, ourweeminds is such entertaining reading for us 'beggars'. Still a couple of points need to be cleared up for Sad Dog.

They (the FAI) steal our players.

Hmm? Last time I looked NI was a free country to make the choice of what Irish team you played for and what passport you bought. This goes as much for Northerners (be they Catholic, Protestant or Jewish) as it goes to the 15 supporters in Donegal who go to Windsor Park. Still if Dog Breath really thinks Merrion Square are holding anyone against their will he should speak to the police.

They try to get our home game with them moved to a neutral venue.

This refers to the FAIs request that Belfast, at the height of the worst murder spree outside the early seventies, was maybe not the best place to play their game with the North in 1993. Perhaps naive and un-sportsmanlike but really, considering that Northern Ireland were eliminated, you'd think the people who'd be most peeved with the FAI's chuztpah would be Denmark and Spain.

They refuse to fly our flag at a friendly in Dublin.

Diddums, they didn't!!!! Ahhhh. Still it's OK for the IFA not to fly our flag at Windsor Park (I'm beginning to suspect that this chap has just dropped his cojones because he should have mentioned the three other games at Lansdowne where his flag wasn't flown, just to point out what awful people we are).

...and illegally call themselves Ireland.

Being a bit of an anorak I have Ireland programmes going as far back as the 1949. From 1954 all programmes have the home team 'Republic of Ireland' on the cover...unlike Northern Ireland which was still using 'Ireland' into the late sixties.

if the IFA had any guts, they would simply refuse to have any dealings with the scum from Merrion Square.

Beggars? And now scum.

because I use the term beggar, according to Jim, I’m now in "a very tiny minority of so-called fans".

Definitely not Dog Sh*te. But then that's why so many Nationalists wouldn't touch Windsor Park with yours.

[Beavis]

The fact that we don't refer to Northern Ireland in a similar manner is that we don't even consider them as a rival cos they're so cr@p. I say let them slag us off,let them get caught up in childish name calling while we follow our team to major tournaments and actually celebrate goals

[TommyT]

This is classic stuff, a bit like watching ''Hearts and Minds'' where for the duration of the Celtic Tiger years there was a report on how the boom was on it's last legs and the southern economy was going downhill-the concept of southern catholics being richer than northern prods doesn't seem to have registered, hence they blindly lift insults from the Rangers Fanzine ''Follow Follow''

[davey]

I've had a browse on this site a few times and to be honest, its excellent.The majority of people on there are just supporting thier team and have no time at all for any sectarian nonsense The question of whether you find the term "beggar" offensive is open to a lot of debate. Personally, I don't . Its all part of footie banter.

Lopez did raise some good points though. I've heard this "stealing" our players a few times and its ludicrous. No-one forces these lads to sign up with us. Adopting the moniker "Mad Dog" hardly points to someone embracing "football for all" - whatever his reasons for the name.

[TommyT]

Originally posted by davey
I've had a browse on this site a few times

So have I and i found them to be an unbelievable shower of ****s. The crowd on irishleagueforums.co.uk are fine though.

[liam88]

Originally posted by davey
The question of whether you find the term "beggar" offensive is open to a lot of debate. Personally, I don't . Its all part of footie banter.

I've had worse

On the subject of stealing players Lennon never came South.

[gspain]

I also post on the site and the article is crap.

The site is not offensive or sectarian.

As for being rivals well no I don't know any RoI fans who see NI as our rivals

[lopez]

Originally posted by davey
I've had a browse on this site a few times and to be honest, its excellent.The majority of people on there are just supporting thier team and have no time at all for any sectarian nonsense The question of whether you find the term "beggar" offensive is open to a lot of debate. Personally, I don't . Its all part of footie banter.

I find this site thoroughly entertaining. The whinging that goes on, the paranoia - the word on the street is that a Taig made that call claiming to be the UVF/UDA, as we were the only ones to benefit from Neil Lennon's retirement - aswell as the 'some of my best friends are Taigs line' has me in hysterics at times. But indeed, who gives a f*ck about the North? This site has been around for eighteen months venting its spleen about us, and hardly anybody here can be arsed returning the favour.

Two things. Firstly, the fact that most of their arguments against us are either hypocritical or fantasy. Secondly and more importantly, is the impression that many posters give of being non-sectarian, and yet slag off the country that almost half the population feel Northern Ireland should be part of. This is the half that the IFA's Football For All is directed at. While Jim Boyce smacks of Colonel Sanders trying to get customers into his outlets after they found a fried rat in their bargain buckets, it must also be added, as the odd lone voice claims in the forum, there is no contradiction between supporting Northern Ireland and being a Nationalist.

Originally posted by gspain
I also post on the site and the article is crap.

Well let's look at what was said.

The majority of people posting on the site - which has no official links to the IFA - do not hold sectarian views.

Therefore only a minority.

'One message read: "We are talking about a country where dishonesty and casual criminality are often viewed as endearing national quirks....'

The only thing wrong with this statement was that it was not the words of an individual but of an article on the web site. Tell me Gary, do you view 'dishonesty and casual criminality' as 'endearing national quirks' of the Irish?

...The Irish football team is full of tinkers, psychotic gypsies, and itinerant tarmackers...

This was directed at Roy Keane. I didn't know he was a member of the travelling community.

...The Republic and their fans went home from World Cup 2002 with only their self-delusion, and whatever they'd stolen from their Asian hosts...

What did you thieve in the orient, Gary? I and everyone I know managed to come away with only souvenirs we bought legally.

Perhaps you'd care to read Breen's and the ourweeminds articles again?
Boyce slams web bigots' own goal
tales from the underground

Originally posted by gspain
The site is not offensive or sectarian.

Offensive, no. Sectarian? Do you think that it is ideal or necessary for a football site - one pertaining to be representative of all Northern Ireland citizens and therefore non-sectarian - to put up insignia relating to the British armed forces (posted at the beginning of Dubya's invasion of eye-rak) considering the bitterness felt by many members of the Nationalist community to the British Army? Would you agree that it was also not sectarian that an unofficial GAA board have a 'Vote SF' advert on it during elections?

[NigeSausagepump]

I've had a look at that board and from what I can see, most of the posters seem to be just interested in the fortunes of NI and the perception of their team/country. There do appear to be a couple of lads who take the beggars thing a bit far, but frankly there are a couple of posters on this board who would have not dissimilar opinions towards England. The vast majority of ROI fans that I know don't spend a huge amount of time thinking about the NI team or see them as our football rivals, just as most English fans wouldn't see the ROI as one of their main rivals.

If a couple of them want to call themselves things like Mad Dog and claim people in the Republic are endemically corrupt or form a nation of petty criminals, let them wallow in their own prejudicial stupidity. As far as I can see, most of the posts are unoffensive to this ROI fan and the posters are probably just decent blokes supporting their own team.

[gspain]

Lopez I'm not familiar with the article you menhjtioned but it wouldn't be hard to pull a few articles from this site and say we're all sectarian bigots.

No of course I don't agree with the stuff you quoted. Easy to pick out ok2boo.com too and say all Irish fans are sectarian bigots.

They see us as rivals - I don't nor know no RoI fan who would. Thye made a big deal about a Mickey Mouse friendly win over our 4th team in 1999 and happy to remind them of a certain 4-0 competitive win.

[lopez]

Originally posted by gspain
Lopez I'm not familiar with the article you menhjtioned but it wouldn't be hard to pull a few articles from this site and say we're all sectarian bigots.

This site has no articles. Just quotes from individuals, and people are entitled to think what they like about us. The crowd at the Sunday Life didn't think we were that bigoted though.

Originally posted by gspain
No of course I don't agree with the stuff you quoted. Easy to pick out ok2boo.com too and say all Irish fans are sectarian bigots.

ok2boo.com is sectarian. We've had a long and exhaustive debate about booing of internationals with connections with Rangers, most of this site, including you and me, condemning the practice. The difference is that the team, to be PC, that goes by the name of Republic of Ireland has no great minority it is trying to woo back to Lansdowne Road. Perhaps if there was an all-Ireland team tomorrow, then there would.

Any national minority in the 26C has a choice. Follow Ireland or follow someone else. If people wish to see themselves as British coming from Ireland, which at the last count was over 20% of the island's population, then there is nothing I nor you can do about it. I for one am not going to go around calling someone from the border counties a 'plastic Brit' because of their own heritage, because I know what it is like to be born in one country, feel it is not my own, and follow the country (sometimes countries) of my parents.

Northern Ireland is a segregated State between two communities looking in different directions. That bunch of religious bigots (Ulster Independence Party) belonging to the Rev. Hugh Ross who want independence for a 9 county Ulster? How many votes did they get in the recent elections? 0.28% of the vote from forty candidates. Apart from this, everyone is either unionist (British) or nationalist (Irish) and nationalists are bound to support us, even if only as a second team. Therefore the minority, albeit a vocal one, at owc who think we go around beg, borrowing or stealing 'their' players, should get a grip with reality and stick to concentrating on getting nationalist ars*s back into WP, cheering behind their team.

BTW, this so-called 'gentleman's agreement' between the IFA and the FAI is nothing short of illegal.

[On The Kop]

Oh we have touched a nerve haven’t we Lopez. One of these ‘So Bitters’ what with living England and all is it? Some farmer from Mullingar call you English on an away trip?

I always thought Mad Dog was named after Dominic McGlinchey? Anyway he is called that as it is a common name for headers in ‘da north’.

Good to hear you find the site entertaining, interesting you pick up on one comment from one person about the phone call, but hey that fits the agenda doesn’t it?

Interesting the only people upset at Lennon playing for the occupied six where the superprods and the chuckies? Wee bit of black propaganda from a chucky to wander up from Bawnmore and make a call from a phone box in a prod area. I agree very doubtful as you could can depend on some muppet on ‘our side’ doing it but is it not plausible?

You seen a regular visitor on OWC for someone who doesn’t give a f*ck about the North. By the way the fanzine has been going since 1995 and the website since about 1998. We get a few Republic fans on but a lot more chuckys but they don’t last long. As you say no one gives a f*ck about us.

True no doubt in the English shires or south of the Liffey but up in the occupied six many Republic fans (since 88) seem to. Andystown News Irish News etc regularly mention us, be it being ****, an all Ireland team etc etc.

Republic fans in the occupied six are our workmates, they may not be our neighbours but we do socialise with them and we do banter. For someone living on a diet of the Irish World/Echo whatever I can understand this might be difficult to comprehend.

As you seem the expert, come on tell us what we need to do for Football for All. I for one will be most interested as no doubt Jim Boyce will, many on here and on the OWC site.

Does OWC pertain to be representative of all NI citizens? I thought it was a website for NI football fans. Fans who are, were, have family in the forces, and as many have in ‘da south’. Hence the banner wishing our lads and lassies well in the Gulf. Next you will be telling us the wearing of the poppy is offensive?

[lopez]

Browsing through the ourweei.q. forum, I've found that my brief critique of Sad Dog's rant has caused a bit of a stir. SD himself, despite vowing not to 'respond to any of [my] rubbish', while er actually responding, begins by claiming my name is suitable for a 'Mexican' (Mexico, south of the border, geddit?) while adding, 'if you're reading this Gringo, cheers for giving me a great laugh at your expense.' Funny hombre, I was just saying above here, that's exactly what I think every time I come onto ourweeminds.

As for SD's name, one of his mates has just posted here that he named himself after Dominic McGlinchey. Yeah, right. Frankly I'm beginning to wonder if he chose the name because he shares with the 'wee man' a tendency to wet his bed. (For a detailed account of Adair's enuresis as told to the RUC by a former girlfriend, see pp73 of Mad Dog: The Rise And Fall Of Johnny Adair And 'C' Company by David Lister and Hugh Jordan, Mainstream Publishing.)

Sadly, Dog Breath has vowed not to 'lower myself to post [here].' Ahhhh! The poor thing. He even thinks I'm actually someone who gives a f*ck if he doesn't. No reasons are given and I can only speculate that: A. Someone called Johnny already has the MD username on foot.ie; B. Dog Sh*te's mother, for his own sake as much as anyone else's, won't allow him to use more than one football forum at a time; or C. and the most likely, he hasn't the intelligence nor the maturity to back up his arguments on this forum.

Oh and Doggy, I know you're reading this. Don't expect me to come over onto your site either. After what happened to Gary Glitter, it's not such a good idea to talk to little boys via the internet.

[lopez]

On the Kop.

Are you the c*nt who started the ourweeminds strand on Sunday called 'beggers (sic.) forum', misspelling beggars twice in your request for a website to have 'some banter with some beggers (sic)', before it was mysteriously removed?

[Andyh]

Chill out Lopez,

Maybe if Stephen Breen browses this site as well and reads your rants, he might have the making of next weeks story.

[Duncan Gardner]

Lopez. Just adding briefly to your reply to "Mad Dog" (who takes his nickname from a habit of diving into the pool shallow end when inebriated). The FAI is widely seen by NI fans to have breached the 'gentleman's agreement' not to pick NI-born players for the Republic, or vice versa. On the other hand, for reasons I've covered on other threads, there are still hardly any such players in representative teams beyond youth level.

I'm surprised you think that the Danes and Spaniards would have been more irritated by the Republic's attempt to get the 1993 game moved outside NI. For an illustration of this, suggest you wait until ETA next murder a few Madrilenos in a car bomb, then ask the Spanish FA if they mind playing the forthcoming World Cup game in France or Italy?

You know, he has a point about flags and national anthems. Why don't the FAI just (dis)play them? Or better still, agree not to have any at any games, home or away?

BTW, 'Mad Dog' is I believe 26. But then again you're half a lifetime older and using equally childish language, eh? You could have answered all his inaccuracies and warped logic without lapsing into nursery Spanish...

Beavis. A fair point that the Republic have little to gain from seeing NI (or Wales, or Scotland) as close rivals, given our recent lack of success. But then again you've qualified for exactly ONE of the last five of those major tournaments. I wouldn't get too carried away!

Davey and NigeSausagePump. You make fair points, most readers and contributors are only interested in the team and have little time for sectarianism or arguing party politics.

Tommy T. Why thanks, and a happy New Year to you too. Actually, I'm a regular of all three and I have to say Irish League Forums has the greatest proportion of abuse and inanity.

G Spain. Good reply to Stephen Breen. Would you agree with me, though, that owc needs rather more moderation?

Lopez, again. I'm afraid you're reacting to this more obsessively than almost everyone on OWC. Why, as you keep claiming to be uninterested? But if you must. There is no credible suggestion that nationalists made the threatening call about Lennon. It came from a phone box in Rathcoole, where 99% of the population is unionist. I think you'll find the nationalist vote in our most recent election was a modest 40.5%. Not quite half, if you must nitpick.

The (already partly successful) aim of the 'Football for All' campaign is to make Windsor- and Irish League grounds generally- unthreatening and more pleasant places to watch games. You said yourself after visiting in June how much the atmosphere had improved, and this is widely commented on by regulars. But insofar as a particular group of currently non-attending fans is targetted, it is clearly unionists who either watch other sports (rugby, ice hockey), or don't bother at all. It's widely recognised that most northern nationalist football fans support the Republic. Some, like myself, are relaxed about that; Mad Dog and maybe Jim Boyce less so. But all recognise the reality. But hey, if people want to come to a game, or support both teams, what's the problem?

The article is "crap" because to me it distorts the view of a small minority (while admitting its size, to be fair). But this is a standard journalist's technique, as recognised on OWC. And in any case many think the publicity is worthwhile.

While I opposed the OWC site displaying a pro-troops banner at the beginning of the war (after all, OWC is about a football team), it's stretching a point that this is sectarian. This is not to downplay opposition to the war and British militarism generally, from Irish nationalists and others. But in this case, I don't think there was any sectarian intent. 'Tonic for the troops' support for a war generally increases at the beginning of hostilities, as often seen in the past.

Our wee i.q. Oooh nurse, my sides!

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/forum...i+Jaam+Session

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/forum...r=Mad+Doggerel

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I'm surprised you think that the Danes and Spaniards would have been more irritated by the Republic's attempt to get the 1993 game moved outside NI. For an illustration of this, suggest you wait until ETA next murder a few Madrilenos in a car bomb, then ask the Spanish FA if they mind playing the forthcoming World Cup game in France or Italy?

Let's cut to the chase. England, Wales along with Spain and a few other countries didn't play in NI for say three years in the seventies until 1975. Meanwhile, Scotland refused to go back until 1980. However very few words of criticism on OWC towards them. In fact for some NI fans they merit more support in rugby than the Irish team. Nearest rivals my arse. Let's cut the crap. This is about the Republic full stop and it's about nationalism versus unionism.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
You know, he has a point about flags and national anthems. Why don't the FAI just (dis)play them? Or better still, agree not to have any at any games, home or away?

Why didn't the IFA do likewise? Oh I'm sorry there was a local law that prevented the display of the Irish tricolour. Did the Flags and Emblems Act also cover national anthems?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
BTW, 'Mad Dog' is I believe 26. But then again you're half a lifetime older and using equally childish language, eh? You could have answered all his inaccuracies and warped logic without lapsing into nursery Spanish...

I did. The dissing was for calling me a Mexican. You know how the Spanish react to being called Mexicans. Anyway are you the Jeff to Mutt above. What's wrong with MD speaking for himself, or are you worried I might get out the sweeties?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez, again. I'm afraid you're reacting to this more obsessively than almost everyone on OWC. Why, as you keep claiming to be uninterested? But if you must. There is no credible suggestion that nationalists made the threatening call about Lennon. It came from a phone box in Rathcoole, where 99% of the population is unionist. I think you'll find the nationalist vote in our most recent election was a modest 40.5%. Not quite half, if you must nitpick.

I'm interested in anything directed towards the Irish team and the FAI.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
The (already partly successful) aim of the 'Football for All' campaign is to make Windsor- and Irish League grounds generally- unthreatening and more pleasant places to watch games. You said yourself after visiting in June how much the atmosphere had improved, and this is widely commented on by regulars.

Best atmosphere in a long time. But then you don't have the event junkies jumping the queue for seats.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
But insofar as a particular group of currently non-attending fans is targetted, it is clearly unionists who either watch other sports (rugby, ice hockey), or don't bother at all. It's widely recognised that most northern nationalist football fans support the Republic.

I've read Jim Boyce saying that he wants more nationalists at WP (Guinness Book of Ulster Sports circa 1995 or 1996). I've yet to see him say the same about unionists.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Some, like myself, are relaxed about that; Mad Dog and maybe Jim Boyce less so. But all recognise the reality. But hey, if people want to come to a game, or support both teams, what's the problem?

That's what I've been saying.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
The article is "crap" because to me it distorts the view of a small minority (while admitting its size, to be fair). But this is a standard journalist's technique, as recognised on OWC. And in any case many think the publicity is worthwhile.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
While I opposed the OWC site displaying a pro-troops banner at the beginning of the war (after all, OWC is about a football team), it's stretching a point that this is sectarian. This is not to downplay opposition to the war and British militarism generally, from Irish nationalists and others. But in this case, I don't think there was any sectarian intent. 'Tonic for the troops' support for a war generally increases at the beginning of hostilities, as often seen in the past.

Was this the same on the unnoficial web sites of England, Wales and Scotland?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Our wee i.q. Oooh nurse, my sides!

Sorry. Thanks mate for the good word earlier, just don't expect a curry with that pint. Baalti Jam Session? You been binge eating again? And don't forget to vouch to Golden Boy that I'm a regular at Kenilworth Road. Hate to disilusion the poor c*nt.

Originally posted by Andyh
Chill out Lopez,

Maybe if Stephen Breen browses this site as well and reads your rants, he might have the making of next weeks story.

Chill pill about to be taken. Re Breen and the story? Don't the Irish media only target NI supporters over bigotry? They wouldn't be interested coming on here would they? Sure I'm only havin a bit o craic.

[On The Kop]

Originally posted by lopez
On the Kop.

Are you the c*nt who started the ourweeminds strand on Sunday called 'beggers (sic.) forum', misspelling beggars twice in your request for a website to have 'some banter with some beggers (sic)', before it was mysteriously removed?

No but was the guy who removed it. Bit odd that it should be posted just before the Sunday Life ‘story’ broke don‘t you think?

Whoosh, way over your head reference Mad Dog McGlinchey (decreased). You really are one of these blokes on the mainland who buys all the books about ‘the struggle’ aren’t you. There is a book about Adair!?! Bet it is on the shelf beside one about Billy Wright and the UVF. Catch yourself on! You really are an Irish Post reader aren‘t you!

He was nicknamed Mad Dog because he is a header. As I said before it suits your agenda to read what you want into that name. (If only you knew MD )

As I said before you really seem to spend a lot of time and seem to have a lot of interest in OWC for somebody who doesn’t give a f**k about them.

Still waiting for your ‘Football For All’ plan by the way.

[Duncan Gardner]

No words of criticsm from OWC to England and Scotland? I'm afraid you haven't been reading carefully. The broad feeling on OWC, and as far as I can see among fans generally over more than 20 years, is quite harsh towards both. We still haven't forgiven them for dropping the Home series and refusing to visit in the 1970s. Messrs MD and OTK are particularly strong in their condemnation, by the way.

So actually no, we aren't picking on you alone.

While not a fan of the F&A Act (which I think inflames rather than calms the situation, though it doesn't cover anthems), I'd have no problem with dropping the anthems at Windsor and Lansdowne, if not everywhere else.

I didn't realise I was MD's spokesman, as "you could have answered all his inaccuracies and warped logic without lapsing into nursery Spanish" should have made clear. Again- do read more carefully, please.

Although Jim Boyce would probably repeat that comment now, there's no mileage in concentrating on nationalists. They support the South and will keep doing so even if we qualify for the next three or four tournaments. Too much has changed since the 1980s.

When hostilities started earlier this year, the large anti-war majority was quickly replaced by 60-70% support in polls for British newspapers such as the Guardian, Independent etc., let alone the usual pro-war suspects. Given all that, I'd be surprised if some of the undoubtedly hundreds of England fan forums didn't have similar banners. But as I said before, I don't think OWC's was sectarian in intent anyway.

'Balti Jaam'- it's a gritty bar in Tallinn train station apparently. Expect to see me there chatting up the Russki sailors, either that or in the Depeche Mode theme. Just can't get enough, baby. I'm off curry for my NYR.

To save OTK the trouble of reading Adair's biog, it can fairly be filed under 'sensational true crime' rather than sociological analysis. The real 'revelation' is that the pint-sized hardman couldn't shoot straight and is only directly responsible for one murder. There's a good bit on his time in the Oi band though.

[lopez]

Originally posted by On The Kop
No but was the guy who removed it. Bit odd that it should be posted just before the Sunday Life ‘story’ broke don‘t you think?

Welcome to foot.ie. Marty, editor of OWC. An honour indeed and nice of you to join us, even if your first post was a bit like what I'd imagine the product of locking a chimpanzee in a room with a PC and a line of Medellin's finest nose candy. As for it being 'odd' that the thread was posted just before the Sunday Life story (no quotation marks from me) broke, please expand?

Originally posted by On The Kop
Whoosh, way over your head reference Mad Dog McGlinchey (decreased).

If you thought for one minute that I believed that your mate named himself after McGlinchey, you've been watching too many re-runs of 'The Comedians' (There was this thick Irishman...). DG's explanation is at least plausible.

Originally posted by On The Kop
You really are one of these blokes on the mainland who buys all the books about ‘the struggle’ aren’t you.

Your point?

Originally posted by On The Kop
You really are an Irish Post reader aren‘t you!

Originally posted by On The Kop
He was nicknamed Mad Dog because he is a header.

Not Dominic McGlinchey!

Originally posted by On The Kop
As I said before you really seem to spend a lot of time and seem to have a lot of interest in OWC for somebody who doesn’t give a f**k about them.

Please see my reply to DG.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Still waiting for your ‘Football For All’ plan by the way.

Perhaps the day that people with tricolours go along to support NI alongside people with NI flags, as people with NI flags go to watch Ireland play rugby (I've seen this with my own eyes) or, albeit tentatively, their local Gaelic football or hurling county, with NI flags alongside people with tricolours, is the day that you have 'football for all'? Bit Martin Luther King I know, and a game against the south is of course the exception, but there are similar examples.

At Spain games at the European Championships in 1996 and 2000 I saw Basque and Catalan flags. One Irish mate with me, you know the sort that would bring the Ikurrina (basque flag) to an old firm game, was shocked when he saw this. Busted that misconception totally. Basically, there is no, or at least should not be, a conflict between supporting NI and being a nationalist, unless the perception is that nationalists are not welcome at NI games unless they behave like uncle Remus.

Less than 1% of the population want an independent NI if DG's barometer of voting is taken, so we can forget about NI identity and all that boll*cks. What we are stuck with then are two communities: Unionist and Nationalist. Sticking up symbols, no matter how well intentioned, of the British army whose record amongst the nationalist community is hardly great, makes the arrival of that day longer. Until then, as DG suggests, the 'lost generation' will continue to follow the Republic.

As for some farmer from Mullingar calling me English on an away game, no. But there's been loads of times that other Irish fans have. You never been called a Paddy by the natives here?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
No words of criticism from OWC to England and Scotland? I'm afraid you haven't been reading carefully...Messrs MD and OTK are particularly strong in their condemnation, by the way.

The condemnation is nowhere near that of the Republic and you know it DG. How many threads on OWC criticise Scotland compared to those about the Republic, the bias of the IRFU (we knick your players in football but won't play them in rugby) and the GAA? As for Marty, yeah I see he has no time for the Jocks which is understandable considering what happened to him and his Finnish missus, let alone the shafting they gave the IFA over abstention from WP and dropping the BC. But hey, maybe Scotland thought they had special rights above everyone else. Anyway they did the same (along with Wales) to the Irish rugby team in 1972, arguably costing them a grand slam.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
While not a fan of the F&A Act (which I think inflames rather than calms the situation, though it doesn't cover anthems), I'd have no problem with dropping the anthems at Windsor and Lansdowne, if not everywhere else.

I take that's when the two countries play? That's what's always happened in the past. So why the hump?

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
The real 'revelation' is that the pint-sized hardman couldn't shoot straight and is only directly responsible for one murder.

Aw shucks! You've given away the plot you b*stard.