It beggars belief

[Duncan Gardner]

Lopez. The convention on boards like these is that you don't reveal others' identity if they use an alias. Particularly when the talk turns to paramilitarism. I know OTK made little effort to hide his real name and is quite likely relaxed about it, but the principle applies still. By the way, he is not the only moderator on the OWC site.

As for your line in abuse, it doesn't become you. In whatever language it's expressed. I'm surprised the foot.ie moderators haven't deleted some of it already. Frankly, and regardless of what a few NI fans think, you are not doing this site any favours.

Anyway, it's six o'clock and work is over for the year. End of sermon, mas cerveza. Buen nuevo ano.

More on Friday, perhaps...

[On The Kop]

Umm if I had really wanted to hide who I was I wouldn't have had subscribed on here using my ourweecountry.co.uk address would I? Once again making something out of nothing

Is it not strange that on the Saturday before an 'exclusive' something like that appears on the OWC message board. Funny it gave this forum as one to wind the beggars up on didn't it. It was deleted when I saw it, not because it called you beggars but I find that when muppets go onto another board winding them up we get them coming onto ours returning the serve.

So who did we nickname Mad Dog after then? Lets go further who was Mad Dog (Adair) nicknamed after? You have the book As I said whooshhh.

I don't do drugs but if I ever start I'll pop up to Luton and see you for a hit as clearly you are in another dimension if that is your idea for football for all! One small but significant point, why would you bring the flag of another football nation (the tricolour) to 'support' Northern Ireland?? Still I’ll pass it on. I'll also make a note the the RAF Dog Display team is not welcome for pre match entertainment as it may offend.

By the way, when 'both communities' supported NI we had adverts in the programme about joining the 'British' army and you don't need to guess whose bands played the anthems. Take a wee peek at the 79 programme against you lot.

Like this concept of 'there is no, or at least should not be, a conflict between supporting NI and being a nationalist'. I've been told on many an occasion that is where the conflict is. In supporting NI you are legitimising the state! Isn’t that why the Andystwon News and Irish News are so keen for that All Ireland side? It certainly not because it will improve your team is it?

Bit scary you knowing what happened to me and my wife at Hampden, you been checking back for more ‘exclusives’?

By the way I rarely get called 'Paddy' but have no problem with it, after all I am Irish. You come across as the type you feels he has to be more Irish than the Irish to prove himself, bet you know more about the ‘conflict’ than I do and I only grew up in it!

[Jimb O'Reilly.]

Can Duncan tell us where this derogatory term for the Ireland supporters, 'beggars' came from?

[On The Kop]

Some might say it is just another name for Gypos or Tramps.

Rangers fans use it to abuse Celtic fans so perhaps it has filtered across from that. I first heard it when somebody shouted it the TV at either highlights of a live game after one of our matches in the old 4 In Hand. ‘C’mon get into these beggars’ or something similar. I remember smiling at that! The Macedonia game in 97 seems to ring a few bells because we watched the in the pub along with highlights of our game from Kiev. Could be wrong, but has been used in the fanzine since 97.

A folk/chucky band are called the Jolly Beggarmen apparently, heard you called that also. Have heard you referred to Pikies recently.

[Jimb O'Reilly.]

Jolly Beggarmen?

Try this link;

http://www.irishrecords.com/40irdrinson.html

[On The Kop]

Originally posted by Jimb O'Reilly.
Jolly Beggarmen?

Try this link;

http://www.irishrecords.com/40irdrinson.html

Ordered it, cheers for the link

Not very respectful that a song in praise IRA 'hero' Sean South is included on a CD of Irish Drinking Songs Then again 'sure it is only a bit o craic'.

[Duncan Gardner]

Jimb: I dont know and dont care.

Possibly from some academy of learning though.

Lopez isnt going to treat me to a cerveza.

Lo siento...

[lopez]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez. The convention on boards like these is that you don't reveal others' identity if they use an alias. Particularly when the talk turns to paramilitarism.

You think that by mentioning the alias of an alias on another board is revealing someone's identity? What do you think will happen? The ra will send Marty an e bomb? Get a grip big man. Otherwise instead of 'Tallinn, hopefully' you'll be putting your OWC location as in a 'straightjacket, helplessly.'

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I know OTK made little effort to hide his real name and is quite likely relaxed about it, but the principle applies still. By the way, he is not the only moderator on the OWC site.

I reckoned the heavy artillery would be brought in at some stage to put me in my place and I didn't reckon MD would come. Beside I doubt the others have the clout to drop a thread.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
As for your line in abuse, it doesn't become you. In whatever language it's expressed. I'm surprised the foot.ie moderators haven't deleted some of it already. Frankly, and regardless of what a few NI fans think, you are not doing this site any favours.

It's called freedom of speech. And its mine.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Anyway, it's six o'clock and work is over for the year. End of sermon, mas cerveza. Buen nuevo ano.

Agus tu hein!

Originally posted by On The Kop
Is it not strange that on the Saturday before an 'exclusive' something like that appears on the OWC message board. Funny it gave this forum as one to wind the beggars up on didn't it. It was deleted when I saw it, not because it called you beggars but I find that when muppets go onto another board winding them up we get them coming onto ours returning the serve.

So we got someone with a mind as narrow as an ant's ar*e instead.

Originally posted by On The Kop
I don't do drugs...

Neither do I as in my line of work the threat of testing is greater than that for a female Olympic shot-putter.

Originally posted by On The Kop
...but if I ever start I'll pop up to Luton...

which is in Bedfordshire

Originally posted by On The Kop
and see you for a hit as clearly you are in another dimension if that is your idea for football for all!

You can see me at my retirement bash because I'm going to have the mother of all joints in one hand and two fingers up to my bosses on my other.

Originally posted by On The Kop
One small but significant point, why would you bring the flag of another football nation (the tricolour) to 'support' Northern Ireland??

40% plus of NI recognise it as their flag, that's why!

Originally posted by On The Kop
In supporting NI you are legitimising the state! Isn’t that why the Andystwon News and Irish News are so keen for that All Ireland side?

Partly, but then not every nationalist, like every unionist, is so, let's for aguments say, blinkered. FFS, even I followed NI in the seventies when they BC games were on the box.

Originally posted by On The Kop
It certainly not because it will improve your team is it?

We'll never know.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Bit scary you knowing what happened to me and my wife at Hampden, you been checking back for more ‘exclusives’?

I used my memory for that one.

Originally posted by On The Kop
By the way I rarely get called 'Paddy' but have no problem with it, after all I am Irish.

Really!!! Does that mean, as an Irishman, that you'd support the whole of Ireland to take one democratic plebiscite to decide it's future? Two questions: British or independent. And abide by that vote instead of threatening the legally elected government of Britain into partitioning the country and installing a one-party quasi-independent puppet state in the North? I think I know the answer to that one. Say what you like about 'superprods' - who sometimes aren't even protestant - but at least you know where you stand with them.

Originally posted by On The Kop
You come across as the type you feels he has to be more Irish than the Irish to prove himself

Born in England, Spanish mother. Oh yeah.

Originally posted by On The Kop
bet you know more about the ‘conflict’ than I do and I only grew up in it!

My cousin nearly walked into the Regents Park bombing in 1982, (I'm sure you know someone injured or killed during the troubles so I'm not trying to score points). What, did you think we all got calls first thing in the morning when the IRA were going to plant a bomb?

Originally posted by On The Kop
Rangers fans use [Beggars] to abuse Celtic fans so perhaps it has filtered across from that.

Hence why people put it on par with Fenians and Taigs.

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez isnt going to treat me to a cerveza.

Only if you promise to behave.

[Jimb O'Reilly.]

Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Jimb: I dont know and dont care.

Possibly from some academy of learning though.

Would that 'academy of learning' be Windsor Park, where it was learnt within the racist / sectarian 'Football for All (except us)' atmosphere?

[On The Kop]

Heavy artillery! Think the others, who care, are still laughing at your Football For All idea!

I’ll ask again do you not think it is strange that a message should be posted on the forum titled ‘Beggars’ looking for a forum to wind up some ‘Beggars’ (with this site recommended) 24 hours before an exclusive on the OWC site about calling RoI fans beggars appears in a Sunday newspaper?

40% plus of NI may recognise the tricolour as their flag that's why they support the RoI! You really are in dreamland here. So what would happen, lets say for arguments sake, NI drew the RoI in the Euro 2008 qualifiers? Who would our tricolour waving ‘NI fans’ support?

I’m the type of Irishman who looks fondly back to the old days when we did have a United Ireland, under British rule. We will never have it again but surely I allowed to be Irish and British the same way you can be Scots/Welsh/English and British.

‘Born in England, Spanish mother.’ If you don’t mind me asking why the Republic then? I take it you supported them BC, with no TV coverage/very little media and you grew up in England?

Is Beggars on par with Fenians and Taigs? Why don’t we call you that then? This is what it comes down to isn’t it? Any and I mean any item of abuse to Republic fans is sectarian/bigoted/racist in you and your likes book. Perhaps Mopes or Chips (as in shoulders) might be more appropriate.

Sorry but you do come across to me as a ‘NI conflict junkie‘, got all the books, know all the lingo, bet you have even been over to the ‘six counties’ and seen the red letter boxes, done the ‘up the Shankill down the Falls’ tourist route, posed by the murals but really, you still don’t understand it do you. I grew up there and I don’t.

Nearly forgot, who was Mad Dog (Adair) named after?

[lopez]

Originally posted by On The Kop
Heavy artillery! Think the others, who care, are still laughing at your Football For All idea!

While the ones that don't will continue to follow the Republic.

Originally posted by On The Kop
I’ll ask again do you not think it is strange that a message should be posted on the forum titled ‘Beggars’ looking for a forum to wind up some ‘Beggars’ (with this site recommended) 24 hours before an exclusive on the OWC site about calling RoI fans beggars appears in a Sunday newspaper?

What are you getting at exactly? If you left the thread then we might be able to see who started it and who replied recommending the foot.ie website. Instead you did a Winston Smith (from 1984 fame) and airbrushed it from history. The OWC forum isn't sectarian for allowing the views of eejits to be posted. It's for printing articles that brush a whole nation (including 40% of NI) as thieves. No I don't think it's strange because there are always snide remarks about the Republic (your greatest rivals of course) on the site so it hardly comes as a surprise. Did you think I posted it? Because if you do, your paranoia is getting more frightening than DG's. Ooooooooh, perhaps the misspelling of 'beggar' was a ploy to portray unionists as illiterate?

Originally posted by On The Kop
40% plus of NI may recognise the tricolour as their flag that's why they support the RoI! You really are in dreamland here.

So much for 'Football for All'. Jimb O'Reilly is right: 'Football for All (except us).'
[QUOTE]Originally posted by On The Kop
[B]So what would happen, lets say for arguments sake, NI drew the RoI in the Euro 2008 qualifiers? Who would our tricolour waving ‘NI fans’ support?
Who do GAA fans in the North support in county matches against teams from the 26C? Kerry, Cork, Meath? Ditch the sectarianism and you may well be surprised.

Originally posted by On The Kop
I’m the type of Irishman who looks fondly back to the old days when we did have a United Ireland, under British rule. We will never have it again but surely I allowed to be Irish and British the same way you can be Scots/Welsh/English and British.

The majority wanted Home Rule (autonomy found in Germany and Spain) but that wasn't allowed. Then the majority wanted out. It's called democracy. I support your right to be British-Irish just as there are thousands born in Britain of Irish parents with Irish citizenship. You have a right to argue for the re-unification of Ireland with Britain. I support the rights of a group of Donegal Finn Harps/Rangers fans to be British and support NI, something incidentally your good friend GSpain isn't too keen on. But then who gets treated as a decent geezer on your site? (see the thread Lansdowne Road Redevelopment)

Now then do you likewise: A. Support the rights of anyone in NI to hold Irish citizenship? B. Do you support the right of anyone to peacefully promote the idea of an all Ireland democratic state with autonomy for NI. C. Do you support the right for anyone to promote the idea of an all-Ireland football team? D. Do you support the right of anyone born in NI of Irish citizenship, should they be good enough, to play football for whichever Ireland they fancy?

Originally posted by On The Kop
‘Born in England, Spanish mother.’ If you don’t mind me asking why the Republic then?

Groan!! I thought you would have twigged by now. I'll give you a little clue: I used to call him daddy!

Originally posted by On The Kop
I take it you supported them BC, with no TV coverage/very little media and you grew up in England?

Holland September 1981 was my first game, so yes. All away games bar one (Iceland 1983) until Jack took over. Brilliant times.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Is Beggars on par with Fenians and Taigs? Why don’t we call you that then? This is what it comes down to isn’t it? Any and I mean any item of abuse to Republic fans is sectarian/bigoted/racist in you and your likes book. Perhaps Mopes or Chips (as in shoulders) might be more appropriate.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Sorry but you do come across to me as a ‘NI conflict junkie‘, got all the books, know all the lingo, bet you have even been over to the ‘six counties’ and seen the red letter boxes, done the ‘up the Shankill down the Falls’ tourist route, posed by the murals but really, you still don’t understand it do you. I grew up there and I don’t.

No need for the apologies. Haven't quite got all the books yet, still to do the Shankill, and not yet posed by the murals. I can see your problems with people reading Irish history. Things were so much better when Irish Catholics were illiterate. As for understanding, you've got a hell of a journey to go to understanding 40% of your neighbours.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Nearly forgot, who was Mad Dog (Adair) named after?

'Mad Dog' Jackie McCarroll. More importantly was who he was named by: Maggie O'Kane (apparently overhearing McCarroll's name at a police station). Never let something like that come in the way of a good story.

[On The Kop]

You really can’t see how ridiculous your idea about Football for All is can you?

Tell you what, this is mine, new sporting anthem, new stadium in ‘neutral’ area, no ‘party tunes’, NI colours only (impractical I know), NI flags only (again impractical over the Union flag but most do realise we are supporting NI and not GB and NI). What excuse would it be then? When it comes down to it, it’s that word Northern that is the problem.

Once again reading into things far too much (seems a habit with you doesn’t it) and then calling me paranoid. Perhaps it was just somebody looking to wind you lot up, perhaps it was our friend from the Sunday Life looking to add some spice to the story that was going to be published the next morning. Boy that would look good wouldn’t it when the average punter checked the site out wouldn‘t it?

Again you are missing out / can’t see one important point. We aren’t talking about two separate footballing nations here so be it northern GAA fans, Catalans, Basques or rugby fans at Landsdowne with Ulster flags supporting Ireland it just doesn’t compare.

Don’t see any problem with A, C or D, not sure about B need to think about that, the autonomy part that is.

I support NI because I'm from NI - Northern RoI supporters support RoI because they want to make a statement that they're NOT from Northern Ireland. To me that is a political not a footballing statement, the same political statement those Finn Harps fans are making. Those who choose the Republic over the country they were born in can expect no respect from me, and if I was a Republic fan I would feel the same about those Finn Harps fans. I would reserve my greatest contempt for those players who take advantage of the IFA training schemes from schoolboy age and then cross over but.

As for snide remarks you seem to enjoy these ‘greatest rivals’ digs. Once again (how many times have I said that) perhaps not in Dublin or in your English shires but they certainly are in NI.

It’s called, as you should know, the ‘bleedin obvious’ over your father. What I was getting at is why the Republic and not Spain or England? Was it just because of your father? I take it you grew up in England, formative years mid late seventies? Many guys I know over here from home with kids brought up in England support England to their fathers shame (perhaps a wee bit of rebelling, kids like winning teams, seeing them on TV etc). I can guess in your time very little if any media coverage, no major touroments? So why? That continuing quest to prove you are more Irish than the Irish?

Agree, it must have been brilliant times BC, always enjoy away trips with a small group of fans.

“I can see your problems with people reading Irish history. Things were so much better when Irish Catholics were illiterate. As for understanding, you've got a hell of a journey to go to understanding 40% of your neighbours.”

As I grew up amongst ‘40% of my neighbours’ I understand them alright! With all you have written those first two sentences sum you and your attitude up to a T.

All this from someone who couldn't give a f**k eh.

[lopez]

Originally posted by On The Kop
You really can’t see how ridiculous your idea about Football for All is can you?

You asked what needed to be done, not if I seriously thought it was plausible. A tricolour at WP is about as acceptable as a pork pie at a Bar Mitzvah when the RoI plays there. I know this London-Irish bloke (half Tyrone/half Clare) who had one out at the NI games at the Mexico world cup. Unsurprisingly got a bit of abuse.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Tell you what, this is mine, new sporting anthem, new stadium in ‘neutral’ area, no ‘party tunes’, NI colours only (impractical I know), NI flags only (again impractical over the Union flag but most do realise we are supporting NI and not GB and NI). What excuse would it be then? When it comes down to it, it’s that word Northern that is the problem.

About as MLK as mine. You want to stop people doing this, wearing that, singing that. You'll need bouncers everywhere and will stop the 'superprods' from coming. South Africa has two anthems. The day after the Saudi game I saw Spain against SA in Korea and there was equality in the colour of SA fans in what is still a deeply divided country. As for 'Northern', yes that is a problem - the Nationalist support was probably greater in pre-eighties when NI were regarded as Ireland for the BC - but it's as much as us being your 'greatest rivals' because of religion and politics, rather than your cultural and religious cousins across the Celtic sea who have shat on you more.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Once again reading into things far too much (seems a habit with you doesn’t it) and then calling me paranoid. Perhaps it was just somebody looking to wind you lot up, perhaps it was our friend from the Sunday Life looking to add some spice to the story that was going to be published the next morning. Boy that would look good wouldn’t it when the average punter checked the site out wouldn‘t it?

I knew you were fishing. You kept banging on about the coincidence etc. and I almost put down Breen along with me, but I thought he could answer for himself. Have you asked Mr. Breen? Fair enough, anyone could have planted that thread, just like anyone could have made that call about Lennon. But you can't disguise the animosity to Lennon at WP (even if from a minority) nor can you disguise the constant remarks about 'beggars' on your OWC nor the fact that you allowed an article to be published that claimed Irish fans were all thieves.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Again you are missing out / can’t see one important point. We aren’t talking about two separate footballing nations here so be it northern GAA fans, Catalans, Basques or rugby fans at Landsdowne with Ulster flags supporting Ireland it just doesn’t compare.

We are also talking about one 'footballing nation' containing two national communities, neither of which is NI nationalism.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Don’t see any problem with A, C or D, not sure about B need to think about that, the autonomy part that is.

I thought that would be ideal. Autonomy would allow you to keep the NI football team (various autonomous regions in Spain have their own teams. Not only the Basques and Catalans but Andalucia and Cantabria which do not have independence movements).

[lopez]

Originally posted by On The Kop
I support NI because I'm from NI - Northern RoI supporters support RoI because they want to make a statement that they're NOT from Northern Ireland.

Northern RoI fans support the RoI because the capital of their nation (as opposed to state) is Dublin and the tricolour is their nation's flag. Partition was an undemocratic British creation. Don't blame us if the border stops at El Paso.

Originally posted by On The Kop
To me that is a political not a footballing statement, the same political statement those Finn Harps fans are making.

It's ironic that I'm getting a lecture about people supporting a team as a political statement from someone that puts up military insignia and statements about war on a football web site. Following your country to me is a political statement. Nationalism is about us and them, and in sport it is, as Orwell said, war minus the shooting.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Those who choose the Republic over the country they were born in can expect no respect from me,

Well this comes down to two groups. NI fans which I have covered above, and us 'Plastics.' Marty, you are quite a blinkered soul, believing that the place you are born is paramount over everywhere else. Have you ever heard of Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis. Look them up in google or a dictionary. One centres citizenship on the soil (soli), the other on blood (sanguinis). Most countries favour the latter over the former. Germany will give citizenship to someone from Kazakhstan with a German name, eighteenth century ancestors and a war-time Nazi membership card of their grandfather than a German born person of two Turkish parents. Who do you think the German born Turk should support? Turkey or Germany?

True we're talking Germany here not the UK. Except it happens here. The 1981 British Nationality Act discarded Jus Soli. I personally know a Zimbabwean couple whose Hertfordshire born kids' applications for passports had to be vetted, taking three months, even though their parents were here legally. If the granting of their citizenship was guaranteed, why the checks?

Originally posted by On The Kop
...and if I was a Republic fan I would feel the same about those Finn Harps fans.

How many people from Donegal signed the Ulster Covenant? What happens if they re-partition and NI fans west of the Bann are now in the Republic? Is it tough sh*t boys, you're now beggars?

Originally posted by On The Kop
I would reserve my greatest contempt for those players who take advantage of the IFA training schemes from schoolboy age and then cross over but.

Here you have a point. Who were they?

Originally posted by On The Kop
As for snide remarks you seem to enjoy these ‘greatest rivals’ digs. Once again (how many times have I said that) perhaps not in Dublin or in your English shires but they certainly are in NI.

If you say so. What name do you have for England fans? DG says they get slagged as much as us on OWC because they shafted you over the BC.

Originally posted by On The Kop
It’s called, as you should know, the ‘bleedin obvious’ over your father. What I was getting at is why the Republic and not Spain or England? Was it just because of your father?

I love Spain and hope their team wins Euro 2004. I speak Spanish, have relatives in La Coruna and go their as much as I can. Naturally I also support Deportivo (the only club that I actively follow, although after Golden Boy's recommendation, I'm going to give Kenilworth Road a visit too) on Sky and see them occasionally in Spain and Europe (saw them in Eindhoven last month thanks to Michael O'Reilly's flying bus costing me 2p plus taxes). They also have a large support of 2G in London due to Galicia's emigration which means I've got mates here that are supporters too. As a political statement I could have supported Celta instead (someone who knew f*ck all about Spain reckoned Celta carried tricolours and Depor Union Jacks) but declined. England? Never bothered with them. I think I've supported them in one match in my life (against the USSR in 1988).

Originally posted by On The Kop
I take it you grew up in England, formative years mid late seventies? Many guys I know over here from home with kids brought up in England support England to their fathers shame (perhaps a wee bit of rebelling, kids like winning teams, seeing them on TV etc).

I asked DG the question on here some time before: 'Do you have any plastics following the Occupied Six?' He said no and told me that a load of troops promised to come and support you in Germany but didn't turn up. It surprised me in a way (not the troops, but the kids). But then it may be that the NI people you know are British and their kids are too. I know a few following RoI with parents from the North but then their parents don't consider themselves British. Rebelling against their parents? I had my ups and downs with my father as most teenagers, but it didn't sway where my origins are, although I can understand if your father is a thick, feckless, IRA supporting, alcoholic it's hardly a role model. I think many kids follow England because some Irish people do think that being born here makes them English even after christening them Sean or Tara, but you are also right about the media pressure.

Originally posted by On The Kop
I can guess in your time very little if any media coverage, no major touroments? So why? That continuing quest to prove you are more Irish than the Irish?

Not so the little media coverage. Firstly my old man used to get the Irish Press a day late and anyway British newspapers carried reports. Secondly Shoot! (if you are old enough to remember) had a preview of all Irish internationals (We were very much one of the home nations). Thirdly was the number of Irish players in the FL. Compare this with Spain and nothing except when an English club or the national side were playing them or the 1978 World Cup. These along with my father not ramming England down my throat, are the positive aspects of my formative years. The bits you want to hear are the negative aspects. Going to a secular school (my parents were, could we say 'anti-clerical') I was also made clear about my difference from English kids from the start. Coupled with the 'troubles' and you can see where my chips came from. The kids I never bothered too much about (if things annoyed me too much we'd fight and I either won or lost) but there is one event I remember most that still rankles. It was my Scottish woodwork teacher calling me a 'thick Irish b*stard' in front of the class after messing up my work (guess I wasn't cut out to be a carpenter). It was also the day after 'my country' had been hammered 4-0 at Wembley, because he continued to cite that team's performance as evidence for my genetical stupidity. The date? 8th February 1979.

Originally posted by On The Kop
Agree, it must have been brilliant times BC, always enjoy away trips with a small group of fans.

Small group trips are great and we still get some. However the BC days were not all one coach and the driver. The Holland game mentioned had 5,000 Irish there according to the Dutch paper De Telegraaf (if I remember the Daily Mail cited 3,000 while the FAI said 7,000) for a match that almost got us to Spain. We've got this bloke in the south who thinks he's Ireland's answer to Manolo because he's got this tricolour saying Hello from him (later improved with the addition of a travel company). I read (I think) in some FAI programme or publication about the ill-fated Eircom Park that he reckoned there was just 200 fans at that game. Unsurprisingly I must admit I don't remember him or his flag BC on the small trips let alone the big ones. However you could hardly have called us the 'greatest supporters in the world'...and it's not because of the size of our support if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by On The Kop
“I can see your problems with people reading Irish history. Things were so much better when Irish Catholics were illiterate. As for understanding, you've got a hell of a journey to go to understanding 40% of your neighbours.”

As I grew up amongst ‘40% of my neighbours’ I understand them alright! With all you have written those first two sentences sum you and your attitude up to a T.

Looking back I reckon my neighbours were no different than those in the Balkans if given the opportunities: ('they were so nice. I can't believe they took my father and brothers and then shot them.') As for education, well you're the one with the problem about my knowledge of Ireland.

Originally posted by On The Kop
All this from someone who couldn't give a f**k eh.

[On The Kop]

So you weren’t serious about the tricolours on the Kop then. Silly me. By the way we had some tricolours at the game in Italy, I was even waving one to wind up Mad Dog, you can imagine what happened to it.

From Windsor Park being a Prod Fest on international nights we have come to a point were anybody trying to start up ‘party tunes’ is shouted down. What is wrong with pointing out to people you are going to Windsor to support NI not Rangers and you are not there to partake in a Prod Fest. As I say impractical to stop people wearing what they want but ‘Rangers shirts’ are one of the reasons, like Windsor Park being in a loyalist area , for Catholics in any numbers not to home games. Slightly different than you spaced out idea (which wasn’t serious I now understand).

We haven’t tried to disguise anything! Some of us call you Beggars, it’s part of football banter, so what if you are offended? Isn’t that the point of ‘childish’ name calling? The article, most people realise is a bit tongue in cheek, is very amusing. If it offended you then that is a bonus.

‘We are also talking about one 'footballing nation' containing two national communities, neither of which is NI nationalism.’ So why then aren’t the ‘Brits’ who voted for Unionist parties pushing for an UK team? You say following your country is a political statement, what statement are they making by following Northern Ireland? We are two footballing nations, that why we got to the WC in 1958, 1983 and 1986 and you in 1990, 1994 and 2002! Have you pointed this out to FIFA and UEFA yet?

Perhaps I was a bit harsh saying ‘Those who choose the Republic over the country they were born in can expect no respect from me’. Perhaps I should have made it clear I was talking about that in a NI context. If I have kids , no doubt born in England, I would like them to support NI.

‘Northern RoI fans support the RoI because the capital of their nation (as opposed to state) is Dublin and the tricolour is their nation's flag.’ - As I said, they are making a statement they are not from Northern Ireland so don’t expect any respect from me.

I grew up in a ‘Nationalist’ town and remember a fancy dress parade during the town carnival (must have been 82). Some of the less imaginative kids dressed as footballers with bits of card hanging from there back with Gerry Armstrong, Mal Donaghy, Martin O’Neill, Catholic kids hero worshipping Catholic players playing for their team, Northern Ireland. I still rip the **** out of a few ‘nationalist’ mates when I’m home (some of my best friends are Catholic btw ) reminding them they sat round the TV in my parents house watching the Mexico 86 games with me, cheering on NI. Why the change since 86, just the RoI getting to Euro88? The team as it always had players from both sides of the divide?

Supporting the troops in Iraq really ****es you off doesn’t it. Not in my name was it? As it was British, not Irish troops fighting out there it wasn’t in your name. I sent copies of the fanzine out to the RIR when they were out there also. Seen the photo on the OWC Forum yet, just for you that one, hey we even donated the proceeds of our ‘do’ to the Poppy appeal. Lots of stuff on the website not football related why the problem with that. Slight deference from supporting those 2 Scots Guards or the guy who tried to slot Eddie Copland isn’t it?

‘What happens if they re-partition and NI fans west of the Bann are now in the Republic? Is it tough sh*t boys, you're now beggars? ‘ - No they would still be NI fans but living in another country. 80 years down the line, as I said before if there grandchildren supported NI I would, if a RoI fan, have little respect for them.

Need to look up the names of those players, one from Derry, was at Palace, going out with the Derry girl from Girls Aloud. Another was captain of the U16’s a few years back.

I wouldn’t say England fans get slagged off as much as you lot. Then we don’t have the local media shoving them down our throats, their ‘fans’ in our workplaces walking about in our streets slagging us off do we?

First I’ve heard about all these soldiers supporting us in Germany. Met some squaddies from NI in Dortmund but certainly not any major numbers. Loads turned up in Cyprus, no doubt the same happened when you played there.

The problem I have is that your ‘knowledge’ of Northern Ireland all comes from books! You give the impression want us to be all sash wearing paramilitaries as it is easier to demonise us, the name ‘Mad Dog’ a prime example. The quest to be more Irish than the Irish continues…… You still don't give a f**k about us eh?

I’ll give you the last word as this is going nowhere and to be honest is boring the tits off me. Fire away.

[lopez]

Originally posted by On The Kop
I’ll give you the last word as this is going nowhere and to be honest is boring the tits off me. Fire away.

Goodbye

[lopez]

Originally posted by davros
Lopez,
As a'prod' in that fine'tradition'...

Can I just get my rosary beads out?

Originally posted by davros
...can honestly say based on my experiences in the osc.,a significant no.are a bunch of paranoid bigoted f*cks,who it's a waste of time arguing with!For'ulster unionism',read Pig-Headed arrogance!

They are when they're head of an on-line fanzine/forum offended by the fact that I was questioning the fairy tales and alias of a pre-pubescent bigot...sorry poster and the seemingly unhealthy interest in soldiers of an army groupie.

Originally posted by davros
DG,despite his wide girth...

He don't look so fat in that picture you sent me.

Originally posted by davros
...seems to grasp that not all our fans like/respect them.....& despite his'shame'of a 'taig'grandad(Albeit,one who served in Crown forces)...

Easy on the taig grandad in the Crown forces. I had one of those

Originally posted by davros
...& numerous faults too many & frequent to chronicle here....at least he has a miniscule grasp of how the other'side'lives.......

Go DG! Go DG! Go DG! I good word for Duncan from the hood!!

Originally posted by davros
ML & his ilk,are narrow-minded bigots like many Unionists from the LVF to the Alliance party.....they just define different'means'to reach their goal of continual suppression of nationalist(Or Catholic!) culture.....he does not espouse paramilitarism,but the ultimate aims are the same.It's ironic the ethos of Protestantism,about radical demonstrable change is so radically Rejected in this context.

Marty has left the building.

Originally posted by davros
NB.There are 'atheist'mavericks like FB,who claim there is no higher 'power ';

Does the good doctor know there are people like this in God's country

Originally posted by davros
FINE,but why get so animated about holding onto an archaic colonial outpost,populated by many bigoted planters,whose only purpose of justifiable existence is to maintain their position based on their religion,originally taken by illegal means.

Mind you, looking at the attempt by His Disgrace John McQuaid at making Ireland into the Vatican's answer to Iran, who can blame them?

Originally posted by davros
I personally despise Bob.Mugabe...

Join the f*cking queue.

Originally posted by davros
...but the general point of returning land/resources to the indigenous population(Cue Unionist revisionist history,about how they did the Irish a'favour',about how they'developed'the north!)cannot be ignored.One message to you despicable bigots & your crass institutions from Prod.Nationalists(in the south & beyond....);INTERGRATE with the natives OR F*ck back to Scotland,Bolton et al!

What happened to multicuturalism?

[gspain]

Just to clarify my view son the East Donegal NI fans.

I do suppor the right of anyone to support any team/country they choose.

I don't know a lot about the guys in question and if they feel an ethnic connection to NI - consider themselves British etc etc which is what I think I'm reading from Lopez's quotes then fair enough.

My real concern would be that they feel they have to support NI because they are protestant. We've had many protestant players, administrators and football here was always inclusive when other codes were not.

[lopez]

Originally posted by gspain
Just to clarify my view son the East Donegal NI fans.

I do suppor the right of anyone to support any team/country they choose.

I don't know a lot about the guys in question and if they feel an ethnic connection to NI - consider themselves British etc etc which is what I think I'm reading from Lopez's quotes then fair enough.

My real concern would be that they feel they have to support NI because they are protestant. We've had many protestant players, administrators and football here was always inclusive when other codes were not.

I don't know anything about them apart from what is written on their site. Rangers and FH? A strange combination for some people but I'll think you'll agree at least they follow their local team, unlike a fair few in Ireland, North and South.

Firstly we can assume that this is down to ethnicity, although if I remember, their visits to WP have been recent, which brings us to question 2. Protestants do follow Ireland - Dav above is CofI and the late Tony Booth, the former chairman of the London RISSC, was also CofI. But so too was Sam Maguire, so it's not the religion part. Forget it. Too much is made of that angle as seen from Jim Sheridan's load of cack The Boxer as watched on ITV last night.

What isn't welcome at Lansdowne Road by a significant part of the crowd is anything to do with Rangers - even former players. This may well be the catalyst for these fans. If so, then we are now no better than Northern Ireland. At least on this board there are few willing to defend this practice.

[gspain]

Originally posted by lopez
I don't know anything about them apart from what is written on their site. Rangers and FH? A strange combination for some people but I'll think you'll agree at least they follow their local team, unlike a fair few in Ireland, North and South.

Firstly we can assume that this is down to ethnicity, although if I remember, their visits to WP have been recent, which brings us to question 2. Protestants do follow Ireland - Dav above is CofI and the late Tony Booth, the former chairman of the London RISSC, was also CofI. But so too was Sam Maguire, so it's not the religion part. Forget it. Too much is made of that angle as seen from Jim Sheridan's load of cack The Boxer as watched on ITV last night.

What isn't welcome at Lansdowne Road by a significant part of the crowd is anything to do with Rangers - even former players. This may well be the catalyst for these fans. If so, then we are now no better than Northern Ireland. At least on this board there are few willing to defend this practice.

The east Donegal NISC had a banner at a game in Windsor I attended - think it was denmark 90 or maybe Lithiania 92 - don't think it was one of our games there. They have been around over 10 years although not very prominent as far as i know.

Yes we do have many protestant followers players etc.

We also have Rangers fans who also support us. This would only become an issue in the past couple of years with the morons at Lansdowne. It may be too big a leap to assume a hidden agenda of these people but if allowed to prosper they could succeed in making our national side a Catholic/Republican icon.
The Superprods at Windsor effectively do the same thing.

Whether the GAA is sectarian/racist or not is open to debate but they are effectively a Catholic organisation and protestants don't play their games. Sam Maguire and Jack Boothman are exceptions.