Numbers speak for themselves. As Damien Comolli says, when judging a player you should take into account eyes, ears and numbers. The numbers stack up for Duffy, he looks tidy on the ball when I've seen him and I hear he declared for Ireland a while back. Going straight to the top!Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Still only 22 which is an excellent age for a centre-half to be well on his way to learning his trade.
Is that the same Comolli who signed Andy Carroll for 35m?
All those stats make me nauseous, the blocks, interceptions, etc. This is about the only bit that I'd pay attention to...
Great to see he seems to be getting on well there and he's getting credit for the improvement in their form.
It's a pity that he's not in contention for a start against the USA at least, if not Scotland on Friday night. We are quite weak at center back.Is that the same Comolli who signed Andy Carroll for 35m?
All those stats make me nauseous, the blocks, interceptions, etc. This is about the only bit that I'd pay attention to...
Great to see he seems to be getting on well there and he's getting credit for the improvement in their form.
Funny how everyone is calling for a relative rookie whose movement was criticised by O'Neill after his Costa Rica showing and fearful of a seasoned guy at the same level, captain of the top side in the division.
I think there are doubts over pretty much all our CBs except O'shea tbh.
It was Keogh, not Duffy, who was at fault for Costa Rica's best (only) chance of the game (aside from the goal), didn't cover himself in glory for the aforementioned goal (though wasn't the main culprit) and was at fault for four goals in the Portugal game. He also looked shaky against Serbia. I think Pearce, and of course, Delaney, are better options and the Scots are going to target him.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 11/11/2014 at 4:23 PM.
How has Pearce been playing Towk? I've only seen Reading once this season (v. Wolves) and he had a very poor afternoon. I see they've conceded 27 goals in just 17 games. Doesn't inspire confidence but I admit I don't know enough to judge.
I agree stutts, martinez let him go easily, and Oneill has criticised him in the past whilst having a soft spot for Derry players previously.
Duffy has an awful lot to prove and he certainly wont be missed between now and March.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
He looked solid alongside O'Shea and kept a cleansheet against Italy. He looked OK in the PL. He conceded less goals than Keogh last season in a team with far inferior attacking talent. I would be more comfortable with him rejoining O'Shea at the back but TBH I am baffled by Delaney's absence from squads. He should be third choice.
None of that answers my question.
I only watched the Wigan, Ipswich and Blackpool games and he kept two clean sheets and wasn't directly at fault for either Wigan goal.
I would have neither in the team but using the Serbia, Costa Rica and Portugal games as a reference point for Keogh and the Italy game as a frame of reference for Pearce, I would feel a lot, lot safer with Pearce in the back four.
Pearce may have had a bad game but it would be remiss to pretend Keogh hasn't had any too.
And my apologies, Pearce's Reading conceded 4 more and scored much less than Derby last season.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 11/11/2014 at 4:23 PM.
I don't like Keogh or Pearce. I have no time for either of them, view them as serious liabilities and centre-back is the position on the pitch that I keep an eye out most. Now I'll concede that I've seen little of Pearce, to the extent I can't even mention the games I saw him playing for Reading, but I just don't like him.
Keogh I've seen more of, and he is ok, but for me, and I don't mean this to sound insulting, he at times appears to try to be too smart or clever. To be absolutely fair to him, I was open-minded about him up to the play-off final, and since his absolute brainfart that cost Derby, I've been set against him.
For me little things like that are enough to worry me. The play-off final is just as important to the club player as a qualifier is for a competitive International team and it's international players. It's when you expect players to be at their absolute maximum in the first minute, right through to the final penalty in a shootout at a championship. And Richard Keogh has that mark against him for me already. The difference between the two examples is that the club player gets another chance the next season, either by transfer or promotion. The international doesn't get afforded that same luxury.
That said I'm not too blinkered to change my opinion on a player if I feel it's merited. Unfortunately there aren't enough friendlies with nothing at stake (I'm referring to the absolute need to treat friendlies importantly for the next ranking seedings) whereby they both can get their chances to stake a proper claim.
The way I look at centre-back is that it's the out-field position whereby you need to have an absolute specialist; a player who knows that this is his single area of responsibility and once he does everything he needs to do, then generally his team will not lose. It would take something special from the opposing team to score. I've no problem with wonder-goals or just goals that deserve credit - or that don't require criticism of the centre-half/back 3,4 or 5.
The way I look at Richard Keogh brings me to the same opinion of McShane. I just never feel confidence in McShane's ability to not f*ck-up once a game. Again, I am biased by referencing (in my own mind at least) the couple of times he has let himself down, and I cannot shake those memories enough to credit him with being deserving of a place in the team, precisely because he keeps giving people ammunition.
Loyalty, ambition, commitment-to-the-cause are not traits/characteristics I'm judging here; they should be taken as a given - which I take the liberty of assuming each squad member has; it's awareness, positional sense, the ability to lead or follow the commands of the leading partner, dove-tailing with the corresponding full-back, offensive set-piece threat, defensive set-piece threat, concentration and so on.
And I'm not trying to be dramatic here by saying the following: it hurts seeing the paucity of options we have at centre-back. We've always had great defenders, and even when we've not had great individuals, we've had great partnerships. Ledger wasn't anything to write home about, but Jesus, with himself and Dunne together, you were never bricking it during international week. Breen and Cunningham, an excellent partnership that complemented each other.
We've even had a couple of fellas who were ****e but filled in for a period of time and performed admirably, such as Alan Kernaghan and Phil Babb.
It's also why I get annoyed when Delaney isn't in squads. Is he World-class, is he super-fast, is he young, no he's not. He does make mistakes, but he has qualities that I like in a centre-half; he generally keeps it simple, he doesn't get flustered, he is a tough b*stard, and he's very capable in the sky. I'd put him in the Mick McCarthy/Kevin Moran school of centre-backs, albeit not at Moran's level, and it annoys me to see him relegated to the role of extended squad filler.
And I wouldn't limit it to just centre-back either.
I'm not criticising the management just yet though, because I appreciate that this is still honeymoon territory and it will be one full campaign before they know what they need in their squads in terms of different characters, groups, and cliques etc. But we're Ireland. We do have a limited pool of players. And while this might be the reason why McShane and Kelly are constantly in squads, but I would go the other way and say that when we know what they offer, or don't offer depending on your viewpoint, then I am of the opinion that the management should implore themselves to give that 1 extra squad place to the likes of Matt Doherty or Brian Lenihan, or Jack Grealish, or Cillian Sheridan, or Samir Carruthers, or in this example: Shane Duffy.
That for me is why I put so much stock in the likes of Duffy, Williams, and others who show promise. Not because they're the finished article or anything like it, but because they've shown something, in the case of Duffy here, that they have more potential than their more experienced peers/contenders have ever shown. Sometimes, and it doesn't happen enough until managers are facing down the barrel of a gun (and even then things rarely change), sometimes you need to go out on a limb and have a look or give a chance to the fringe element, particularly in the case of Ireland, whereby we are totally at the discretion of managers in a league which has zero worry about the fate of our national team. Whereby the young Irish player doesn't get the nod at his club, but the young English or experienced European does. Sometimes the fate of one of our many potential players gets put astray for different reasons. I wouldn't encourage using the National team as a shop window for players, far from it, but I think in certain cases we could expand our horizons so to speak.
The North have had to do it numerous times, and a couple of times in the past, their campaigns have been not totally different to ours, with better individual results and just as much chance of qualifying (2008/2010 and possibly 2016)
Having said all that, I'm contradicting myself somewhat by taking a negative viewpoint on Pearce and Keogh without having seen them enough over a fair period of time, to draw a conclusion that is fair to them.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
In fairness I'd really want him playing beside O'Shea for a few games to guide him through.
And as it turned out Costa Rica were much better than anyone realised (particularly England & Italy)
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Very good post, very harsh on SSL though, very underrated player by the fans but highly rated by the players.
Let's hope he gets a club and gets back in the green shirt, we need him.
I thought the fans appreciated SSL. I certainly did.
I've never been entirely comfortable with Wilson tbh. I always think a CB is a bit like goalie: a good start to a game is important, especially if you're inrxperienced at a particular level. Win a few battles or get a few good touches early in a game and you're set for the rest of the game. In Poznan against Croatia SSL won his first header in the first minute (against Mandukic?) and played a very good game. Dunne lost his first two or three in the air and looked a bit flustered until it was too late.
You've got the admire the doc's persistence. He was a great partner for Dunne but unlike Stutts I think I prefer the ball-playing combo of O'Shea and Wilson to the more rudimentary style we had before.
I'm fond of the doc, and what I really liked is that he gave a two-pronged point of attack from set-pieces; he was also very competent on the floor with the ball in short spaces. What I meant was that, it wasn't akin to Italy in the nineties, whereby they had Baresi, Costacurta, Appoloni, Minotti, then Maldini, Nesta, Cannivaro, etc etc. all players playing at the top of their game for huge clubs; Ledger was playing with Preston, and wasn't tearing up trees either. So no disrespect to the doc there.
At the moment there is one centre half I'm happy <shudders slightly> with: John O'Shea. I think he's not the centre-half he should have become, purely by being using as the square peg in the round hole by united. But listen he has more medals than most Irish players and he won't rest uneasily at the thought that some fool from Kerry thinks he could have been a better player had he demanded to be played there by his club.
I'm not fan of Wilson, and I think he's suffered from OShea syndrome too, whereby he's been shunted so much so often that he may not develop into the centre half, or the defensive shield that he could have if he'd insisted upon it. And as much as Ledger played higher than his reputation allowed, I think Marc Wilson is in huge danger of playing below his reputation suggests he should. I don't think he's all that on the deck either, and I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but he must have tried 3 or 4 huge sweeping diagonal passes from wide left to wide right against Gibraltar, all of which failed to reach their destination, and then (watching it back on the player) he started with a similar one against Germany to which George Hamilton comments " Wilson with the long pass to McGeady, finds him this time", both funny and annoying.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Wilson does have a serious case of Diagonal Fever. I think you tend to see that among centre halves when there isn't anybody giving them a real option in midfield, although against Germany Whelan was dropping back and Wilson was just ignoring him, possibly under instruction.
I think most people warmed to the guy. Not that there was any reason to be cold with him in the first place. I certainly appreciated him as a good solid player, not to mention his last-minute goal against Italy in Croke Park, and I'd like to see him back playing club football/back in the green as soon as possible. Not simply because he'd aid greatly our lack of depth at the back, but because he comes across as a nice guy who's always been proud to represent us and engage with the fans. He was out in the middle of Harcourt Street up on people's shoulders the night we qualified for the Euros; he was absolutely loving it.
Ball playing combo and Wilson in the same sentence!
You been on the black pop Chazza?
Even you couldn't deny Wilson is a footballing centre half. He's certainly not a defending one!
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