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Thread: Shane Duffy (D Brighton (loaned to Celtic) b.1992)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    Look, he's gone to the club he loves, it means a lot to him given his father's passing too, and he'll play with a smile on his face for a year. Yeah, it's obviously a lower standard but he's a Premier League standard defender - he's not going to turn to **** because he's not coming up against Raheem Sterling or Andy Carroll every week.
    That's not necessarily correct. Have you ever played against a poor tennis player, by the end of the game you are as bad as they are. Top players need to play against top players to stay at the top

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs246 View Post
    That's not necessarily correct. Have you ever played against a poor tennis player, by the end of the game you are as bad as they are. Top players need to play against top players to stay at the top
    I was bad when the match started !

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    Europa League group stage qualification is essential for him to have any run of decent games, it's hard to describe just how bad the likes of Ross County are compared to what he'll be facing playing for Ireland.
    While this is undeniable, I'm yet to see anybody respond to the case that plenty of players continued to have good international careers despite playing for Celtic. Lustig is the one I keep mentioning as I think he's a good comparison to Duffy, but DCWA had a host of others.

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  5. #1184
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    Lustig joined Celtic in 2011. People keep mentioning Larsson, too; he left Celtic in 2004. This really is irrelevant. The Scottish top flight has deteriorated substantially in quality over the past 10-15 years. This is the pertinent issue. If it were a goalkeeper, striker or midfielder we were talking about it wouldn't be quite so bad, but playing as a central defender against, at best, League One standard opposition forwards, for a side that will be utterly dominant in almost every match they play, cannot possibly keep Duffy as sharp as one would hope for him to be prepared for the quality of attacks seen at international level.

    One interesting aspect is that Lennon has suggested a back three will be his preferred defensive formation going forward, of which Duffy was playing on the right yesterday - a formation it's been suggested to which Duffy is unsuited.
    Last edited by Trequartista20; 13/09/2020 at 12:39 PM.

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trequartista20 View Post
    Lustig joined Celtic in 2011. People keep mentioning Larsson, too; he left Celtic in 2004. This really is irrelevant. The Scottish top flight has deteriorated substantially in quality over the past 10-15 years. This is the pertinent issue.
    Lustig played with Celtic until last year though. Surely the step up from the SPL to international level was still a significant one during his Celtic career, an SPL without Rangers for a large chunk of it too. Yet he was still a solid performer for his country, accumulating loads of caps and playing in major tournaments.

    And that's a guy who had only played in the Scandinavian leagues previously, unlike Duffy who has gained a lot of experience at an elite level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    Lustig played with Celtic until last year though. Surely the step up from the SPL to international level was still a significant one during his Celtic career, an SPL without Rangers for a large chunk of it too. Yet he was still a solid performer for his country, accumulating loads of caps and playing in major tournaments.

    And that's a guy who had only played in the Scandinavian leagues previously, unlike Duffy who has gained a lot of experience at an elite level.
    As a more recent example, Rangers' Helander started Sweden's last match against Portugal. As did the Celtic defender Ajer for Norway. They both lost, but whatever.

    I understand your point but it doesn't really negate the main thrust of my argument. A move to Celtic really doesn't challenge him or improve him as a player.

    I still expect Duffy to start for Ireland for the foreseeable future. As he should.

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    It's not just who he plays against twice a week, but who he trains with every day. Comparing the two, the lower reaches of Celtic and Brighton's squads are much of a muchness I think, but I'd fancy the elite players in Brighton are better than their Celtic counterparts. He'll probably get more game time in Scotland, so his match fitness will be high, but he won't be challenged by the same quality of player. Is that better or worse? At 28 he's enterered his peak already. How much development is left ahead, and how much of his game will depend on constant repetition of what he already knows - positioning and awareness, say?
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
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    On one hand, heís gonna get game time in a footballing team. Havenít watched Celtic lately but I imagine considering their standing in the Scotland that their fans except them to play football.

    Maybe itíll be a year where heís encouraged to play football and thatíll help him.

    Obviously could go the other way too, plenty of people regress playing in Scotland...

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    First Team irishfan86's Avatar
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    Elated yes Iíve thought that too. Playing in a league where his team will be expected to spend plenty of time in possession should be good for the development of his possession game.

    Heíll never be a Van Dijk on the ball but hopefully he will be more used to a possession game as a result of this move, and also have better match fitness/confidence when lining out for us in the playoffs.

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trequartista20 View Post
    As a more recent example, Rangers' Helander started Sweden's last match against Portugal. As did the Celtic defender Ajer for Norway. They both lost, but whatever.

    I understand your point but it doesn't really negate the main thrust of my argument. A move to Celtic really doesn't challenge him or improve him as a player.

    I still expect Duffy to start for Ireland for the foreseeable future. As he should.
    Ajer actually won his last match for Norway but agree that's pretty much irrelevant, the fact that they're still playing at a decent level internationally is closer to my point, but I accept you understand that. And I certainly understand the point of view that playing at a lower level could damage his game, I just think it's one of many factors and there are similar examples that make it less of a concern, for me anyway.

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    The issue with Duffy getting plenty of time on the ball is the way opposition defences set up when playing against Celtic in Scotland. At least 8 and possibly as many as 10 of the 11 teams Celtic play will consistently set up with 10 or 11 men behind the ball when not in possession in the hope of nicking a goal on the break, scraping a 0-0, or even just keeping the score down.

    So there's no problem giving Duffy the ball in that situation in or near his own penalty area, because there won't be an opposition player within 30 yards of him most of the time and any that are will be too busy rushing back into a defensive position after losing possession to have any interest in approaching him unless he ventures over half way.

    So, in terms of Ireland, that's great practice for playing Andorra or Gibraltar, but fairly useless preparation for playing the likes Slovakia or Bosnia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirambler View Post
    possibly as many as 10 of the 11 teams Celtic play will consistently set up with 10 or 11 men behind the ball when not in possession in the hope of nicking a goal on the break, scraping a 0-0, or even just keeping the score down.
    Is that an assumption or based on observation? Only asking because even Hamilton played a very capable counter-attacking game at Parkhead, which really tested Celtic's defence and I'd say most of the better teams in Scotland do actually have a good go at the top two, especially at home, and often have a dedicated press on CBs. I watch Celtic a fair bit and their CBs do have to work hard but of course they also get opportunity to attack and develop play more than you'd get in EPL. And like a goalkeeper, it's easy to look good if you're constantly defending. Being good when you're only needed a few times a game requires something different.

    I'm OK with Duffy's move really, for same reeasons as Delorean and DCWA.

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  16. #1193
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    Observation. I watch a lot of Scottish football!

    By all means teams will counter attack from deep, that and set pieces are the only way for them to get at the two Glasgow teams really. What you see though is that, when they lose the ball, there's little sense of a high press or any great effort to move up on Celtic into the opposition half of the field. The attitude always seems to be - right, we've lost possession, so we need to get back into our defensive shape and our own half of the pitch as quick as we can now. This allows the likes of Ajer and Jullien to move the ball out from the back like they're Sergio Ramos, because there isn't an opposition player near them.

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  18. #1194
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    Breen says this move is a heap of ****e, Lennon gets huffy.
    https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020...-on-ignorance/

    I have to say, I'm with Breen on this one. It's probably better for Duffy than not playing at all, but that's damning it with faint praise.
    Covid-negative, maybe; I haven't checked.

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    I have to say it has made me laugh how defensive the Scottish media have gotten this week over a few throwaway comments by Gary Breen on Off The Ball. There really is a delusion in Scotland that the SPL is of a far higher standard than it is, they think the big two are top half Premier League standard and the rest of the league is like the English Championship and there's no telling them otherwise. At the same time they're mystified as to how their national team hasn't qualified for anything for nearly a quarter of a century and they can't see any link between the two things.

    Breen is right of course, if you play at a lower level there's always a strong chance that it will negatively affect your game. Lennon must know this deep down as well but he can't exactly come out and say it. But he'll know from his transfer dealings that he's shopping in the bargain aisle most of the time, it's EPL reserves and unknown punts from around Europe that are being brought in, even him being the manager at Celtic tells its own story.

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  21. #1196
    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    I'd say you're a thorn in their side over there, Eirambler.

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    On the mark again, equalising at St. Mirren, who have five Irish in their starting XI. Celtic now lead 2-1.


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    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time on twitter and facebook

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    On the mark again, equalising at St. Mirren, who have five Irish in their starting XI. Celtic now lead 2-1.

    Look at the state of that defending..

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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    Look at the state of that defending..
    No worse than Bulgaria's the other week, to be fair.

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