Hillsborough

**geysir** · 30/04/2016, 8:04 PM

Originally Posted by TheBoss

I did refer to 'some' and not 'all'.

I have no problem with the terms you have mentioned, its just that particular term that I find annoying.

In that article I linked to, what were some of the people wearing/waving at that event, Liverpool jerseys, scarfs, flags etc. If they were there for those people they would have been dressed more appropriately considering the tragic way they died. If you asked those 'Irish Liverpool fans' what the 96 means would they say 96 people or 96 Liverpool fans, I'll just leave that thought out there.

In relation to Stardust, I would say that 'nightclubbers' would be a demeaning way to describe them, I would say young people would be more respectful cause in general life they are people, so we should label 'nightclubbers' because on that night they were nightclubbing? Its not as if a 'nightclubber' is a title that one gives themselves is it now.

I think using the term 'person' or 'people' is more emotionally responsive by the public when the hear of a death, to call them other than that sort makes them not as important cause it sounds like their something else other than what they are which is you and me. I can't quite find the vocabulary to explain it clearer.

You don't add any clarification at all. In context. what you are annoyed about is petty and really not worth a mention on a day, when after years of being accused of prolonging victimhood etc, Liverpool families, friend and fans were totally vindicated in the courts.
Football fans traditionally remember their own tragedies (recent and anniversaries) with club related paraphernalia.
Your emphasis on 'Irish Liverpool fans' does betray a prejudice of sorts.

**osarusan** · 01/05/2016, 8:01 AM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Without wishing to go OT, is there a cringe element in supporting an English team in Ireland?

When Irish lads are talking about 'Manc scum' and 'Scouse scum' and the likes, it gets a bit cringy.

**Stuttgart88** · 03/05/2016, 10:07 AM

I read an interview with Ray Parlour in the Sunday Times and he was saying how huge Arsenal are in Ethiopia. Although I fully agree with osarasan's comment, I think we should get over ourselves a bit and just accept that the EPL is simply huge around the world, as are all the clubs at the top-end of European football. Half the world is talking about Leicester City today.

Of course it's frustrating that many Irish follow English football without showing any interest in domestic football but I think it's quite chippy to think being Irish and following an English team is cringeworthy.

**DeLorean** · 03/05/2016, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Of course it's frustrating that many Irish follow English football without showing any interest in domestic football but I think it's quite chippy to think being Irish and following an English team is cringeworthy.

You would say that ya cockney goon

**osarusan** · 03/05/2016, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Of course it's frustrating that many Irish follow English football without showing any interest in domestic football but I think it's quite chippy to think being Irish and following an English team is cringeworthy.

Don't know if that was directed at me but that's not what I think.

Supporting English teams (or Scottish, or anywhere) isn't cringeworthy. Good luck with it if it's what you feel.

But trying to ape their behaviour to the extent that (for example) Irish Liverpool and Everton fans are replicating the cross-city rivalry that exists in Liverpool is fairly cringeworthy.

**DeLorean** · 03/05/2016, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Don't know if that was directed at me but that's not what I think.

Not sure either, it was me that brought the 'cringe element' into the discussion in post #75, but I thought I cleared it up in post #78. Maybe it's not all about me though.

**Stuttgart88** · 04/05/2016, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Don't know if that was directed at me but that's not what I think.

Supporting English teams (or Scottish, or anywhere) isn't cringeworthy. Good luck with it if it's what you feel.

But trying to ape their behaviour to the extent that (for example) Irish Liverpool and Everton fans are replicating the cross-city rivalry that exists in Liverpool is fairly cringeworthy.

How can it be directed at you when I said I fully agree with your comment?

I totally agree with the extreme self-identification thing, but let's face it the world is obsessed with English football and the other big European clubs. It's the way it is and so be it.

**OwlsFan** · 10/05/2016, 4:43 PM

Looking at the documentary the other night, the main fault seems to have been that when they opened the gates due to the crushing outside, they did not block off the centre tunnel which lead to the section which was already full and the later arrivals should have been directed to the other two pens on either side where there was still space. When they came through the gates the obvious way was to go through the central tunnel which was unguarded. This was also apparently Duckenfield's either first or one of his first games in charge. A far more experienced commander had been moved sideways and out of South Yorkshire Police due to an incident between some of his officers. As ever in disasters, it's the domino effect. Apparently in an earlier semi-final between Spurs and Wolves(?), there had been over crowding at that end which was relieved by allowing fans sit on the edge of the pitch. A warning which had gone unheeded.