Croke Park Betting

**gspain** · 19/12/2003, 7:49 AM

While I very rarely gamble I always find the bookies have a good insight on the way things are going.

Interesting betting on paddypower.com on the location of the Ireland v France World Cup qualifier.

Lansdowne is 1/4
Croke Park 3/1
Millenium Stadium (this won't happen) 14/1
Anfield 14/1
Celtic Park 16/1
Old Trafford 20/1

Ibrox is a steal at 500/1

I would imagine that if Croke Park was opened up then the F.A.I. would use it irrespective of bucket seats or not at Lansdowne.

Hence despite all the positive messages coming from parts of the GAA Paddy Power reckons it won't be opned up this year.

BTW the Millenium stadium is not on for 2 reasons

1) Wales play there and we would have to coordinate home games with them.

2) No significant local Irish population - much better to use a premiership ground (or Scottish) which will be empty at the time of Internationals.

**gspain** · 19/12/2003, 7:50 AM

BTW I meant next year for opening up Croke Park obviously not 2003.

**lopez** · 19/12/2003, 9:19 AM

Originally posted by gspain
Interesting betting on paddypower.com on the location of the Ireland v France World Cup qualifier.

Lansdowne is 1/4

Which means keeping the status quo but with a lot less seats. We continue to play in a crap stadium but with no support allowed at either end behind the goals. Great for that vital penalty in injury time to send us to the playoffs.

Meanwhile neither the government, the GAA nor the IRFU/FAI can get their act together into resolving the stadium issue. Yeah, I'd say the bookies have got it right here.

**NigeSausagepump** · 19/12/2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by lopez
We continue to play in a crap stadium but with no support allowed at either end behind the goals.

If we did end up playing at Croker, would there be any support at the Hill 16 end? As far as I know they're extending the Hill into the Nally Stand, but keeping it terraced. If that was the case FIFA wouldn't allow supporters stand at that end of the ground.

**pete** · 19/12/2003, 10:57 AM

If the FAi can tell FIFA they have concrete plans for a stadium (i.e. govt promise cash) then they will be allowed to continue using bucket seats for the next few years.

**lopez** · 19/12/2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by NigeSausagepump
If we did end up playing at Croker, would there be any support at the Hill 16 end? As far as I know they're extending the Hill into the Nally Stand, but keeping it terraced. If that was the case FIFA wouldn't allow supporters stand at that end of the ground.

I stand corrected, and of course there is no guarantee that the atmosphere at Croker will be any better than at Lansdowne. However, I think not having crowds behind the goals can be off-putting. Deportivo La Coruna missed a penalty against Valencia in 94 to clinch la liga and the club blamed it on having a three sided stadium. They knocked it down and built a stand behind the previously vacant goal.

Point is Lansdowne is ancient. It needs to be moved around 90 degrees to build a proper stadium unless there are going to be evictions and removal of houses at the Havelock Square end. All this has been talked about on other threads. The bookies are putting odds on that nothing will change and that the FAI, despite threats will move not move their games abroad. I think they have a point.

I read in last Sunday's Tribune that the benefit of rugby matches to the Dublin economy was an astronomical (beers, food, hotels etc) 90 million Euros. If Croke Park were available then this figure would go up by 50%. With these figures, I would have thought it was imperative that something would be done. But of course no. I'm sick of seeing the government's farting around on this subject which should have been tackled 15 years ago.

Originally posted by pete
If the FAi can tell FIFA they have concrete plans for a stadium (i.e. govt promise cash) then they will be allowed to continue using bucket seats for the next few years.

That seems fair. Except, as usual, there are no concrete plans. Just consultants getting loaded.

**gspain** · 19/12/2003, 12:24 PM

The F.A.I. are not guaranteed the bucket seats. they got a derogation thanks to Eircom Park which would have been ready in Sept 2004 for this campaign.

They are in a very weak position now to look for another one but it would help if the government made a decision (which they won't).

I don't think they'll move abroad anyway and I'd rather 22,000 in Lansdowne than a full house at Old Trafford.

Croke Park is not ideal for football - pitch is too big and one end is still terracing as has been pointed out. Obviously it would still be a lot better than Lansdowne.

**pete** · 19/12/2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by gspain
The F.A.I. are not guaranteed the bucket seats. they got a derogation thanks to Eircom Park which would have been ready in Sept 2004 for this campaign.

I'd still put money on the FAI getting another derogation if they get guarantees from the government that they approvainga new stadium. Otherwise FIFA would be basically saying the irish govt lying which of course is another topic alltogether.
.

**gspain** · 19/12/2003, 1:04 PM

It is not just saying the government is lying but more a matter of safety.

1) I don't think the government will make decision on the matter. History shows this government has prevaricated and dithered on vitually every issue. I hope I'm wrong.

2) There are safety concerns re the bucket seats. 10-15 collapsed at the Swiss game and people were taken to hospital.

**tiktok** · 19/12/2003, 1:14 PM

The FAI should bet on themselves playing at Ibrox at 500-1, then arrange to play there, and collect a fortune which they can put towards a real stadium. flawless plan

my money would be on croker, longford and roscommom have thrown their weight behind opening of croker now, i think the next time it's voted on, it will pass.

**republic** · 19/12/2003, 2:08 PM

After yet *another* report which was handed over by the IRFU it was pathetic to see Mr O'Donoghue in the Dail yesterday saying that he could not give a commitment that a decision would be made in January regarding a national stadium.

In fairness to Bertie and O'Donoghue they at least seem to acknowledge that a stadium is required. Their plans are being scuppered on every occasion by Slim and the PD's who seem to have absolutely no knowledge, love or support of sport.

Things are not helped by the Blueshirts trying to gain a political advantage every time this embarrassing saga is mentioned.

Playing is Lansdowne in front of 22,000 is ridiculous. The talk of moving to Dalymount or Tolka is a sick joke.

Time to start talking to Celtic, I think. At least we'll be welcome there...

**Beavis** · 19/12/2003, 2:08 PM

Originally posted by NigeSausagepump
If we did end up playing at Croker, would there be any support at the Hill 16 end? As far as I know they're extending the Hill into the Nally Stand, but keeping it terraced. If that was the case FIFA wouldn't allow supporters stand at that end of the ground.

Naturally enough the hill would not be open,but it only has a capacity of 12,500 and that would still mean about 66,000 all seater.

Originally posted by Lopez
I stand corrected, and of course there is no guarantee that the atmosphere at Croker will be any better than at Lansdowne.

For the Leinster Semi final of last year the Hill was closed cos of the special olympics,so all the Hill 16 Dub fans were in the Canal End and the noise was unreal.
The Hill is,like the ends at Lansdowne very open,but the dome shape and enclosing roof of Croker's seating areas have an huge amplifying
effect. I wouldn't worry to much about no Hill.The atmosphere would be brilliant.

**finlma** · 19/12/2003, 2:15 PM

Rooney even admitted yesterday that we will have to play our home games in the UK if the Landsdowne Road proposal gets the go ahead. The government however (being the usless bunch on c**ts they are) announced that a decision is unlikely to be made on this in the next month. I hope we do get the go ahead for this redevelopment because I really don't see Croke Park being opened up within the next 10 years. There's a few too many biggots in the GAA and it will take a while for these old boys to die.

**lopez** · 19/12/2003, 2:31 PM

Originally posted by republic
In fairness to Bertie and O'Donoghue they at least seem to acknowledge that a stadium is required. Their plans are being scuppered on every occasion by Slim and the PD's who seem to have absolutely no knowledge, love or support of sport.

I kinda agreed with Slim on the issue of yet another national stadium, but if she's trying to f*ck up efforts to redevelop Lansdowne then she's some witch. Progressive Democrats? About as progressive as the Nazis were socialist!

BTW, did anybody see Korea's 'most wanted' posted on the walls in any of the flop houses in Seoul. There was this momma wanted for some major crime that looked the spit of Harney.

Originally posted by Beavis
For the Leinster Semi final of last year the Hill was closed cos of the special olympics,so all the Hill 16 Dub fans were in the Canal End and the noise was unreal...I would worry to much about no Hill.The atmosphere would be brilliant.

If all we get is the gobsh*te all too prevelant at Lansdowne Road - non-stop commentary, racist abuse, slagging off the players, getting their names wrong, doing the knitting (all of which I've witnessed) instead of getting 100% behind the team vocally (let's face it we're not running around the pitch sweating our cojones off) for 93 f*cking minutes, ffs - then it will be more like funereal than unreal.

**NigeSausagepump** · 19/12/2003, 2:36 PM

Originally posted by Beavis
Naturally enough the hill would not be open,but it only has a capacity of 12,500 and that would still mean about 66,000 all seater.

That's the capacity of the Hill as it is now. It's going to be extended into where the Nally was which will put the capacity closer to 20,000. It is true though that the bowl roofing when fully wrapped around should help retain the atmosphere - not sure how inspiring playing into an end with 20,000 empty spaces would be though.

**Beavis** · 19/12/2003, 5:54 PM

Originally posted by lopez
.If all we get is the gobsh*te all too prevelant at Lansdowne Road - non-stop commentary, racist abuse, slagging off the players, getting their names wrong, doing the knitting (all of which I've witnessed) instead of getting 100% behind the team vocally (let's face it we're not running around the pitch sweating our cojones off) for 93 f*cking minutes, ffs - then it will be more like funereal than unreal.

Well this is it in the end,the stadium won't make noise by itself.

I'd agree with all the accusations made against Ireland home fans.There guilty of them all.Definitely a case of 'not what your country can do for you..' sentiment needs to be taken on board by many of our home fans.

And yes why oh why the in-match commentary,usually they'll get a theory about something,how somebody should be playing in a different position or the likes and will spend the duration of the game trying to point out incidents which support it.

**pete** · 19/12/2003, 6:34 PM

Seems FF done a complete u-turn now.

Bertie bribes the GAA voters with 60m not to open Croke Park to the FAI so FAI have to back Bertie Bowl.
Now the Minister for Horse Racing & Sport is asking the GAA nicely to open croke Park to the FAI to save the government some money.

Pathetic!

**liam88** · 21/12/2003, 7:27 PM

Celtic Park

**derm** · 22/12/2003, 9:39 AM

De positive sounds that are coming outta de GAA are also being bitterly opposed in de GAA - de only thing that's changing there is that de 2 sides are getting more polarised and bitter.

Can't see Croker being opened, or at least if it will, de offer will come when FAI have agreed (and probably played) in another stadium.

Celtic Park prob best for revenue, esp. if sterling stays high

**gspain** · 22/12/2003, 11:29 AM

Sunday Times was not optimistic at all re opening up - mentioend Waterford, Tipperary etc where the bigots are a little cuter than the Cork ones. Just won't allow it to be discussed.

motion failed in Galway too but Roscommon and Longford are in favour.

The ST also quoted a 1924 GAA article that mentioned that a majority of the grassroots were opposed to "the Ban" - it still took 50 years after that for it to go away and Cork and Antrim may bring it back yet.

I still think Paddy Power's 3/1 is more indocative of the real chances than any newspaper article. The bookies often get it wrong but they more often get it right.