QuoteI dont think there is such a thing as a meaningless fixture when your building a club or a team but two clubs cut adrift playing in front of one man and his dog could certainly give that impression.Originally Posted by Sheridan
For the record there's no way in hell Kildare would be part of any top 16...
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I dont think there is such a thing as a meaningless fixture when your building a club or a team but two clubs cut adrift playing in front of one man and his dog could certainly give that impression.
So why only 16 of the league's teams then?
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We have a sustainable league. The LOI has been around since 1921.
What you want it a sustainable league which is at a higher level than it is now. But the fact that we don't get 5000 for every game and d very well in Europe means that we can't get 5000 for every game and do very well in Europe.
Sadly, there are not thousands of fans out there just waiting to go to shiny new stadiums to watch top quality players. If that group of fans existed, we'd have tapped into them by now. Clubs who have overspent trying to offer this to potential fans have suffered for doing so. It is not a case of "If we build it, they will come."
No matter how many teams in how many divisions playing each other however many times, the standard of the league is not going to change dramatically.
Last edited by osarusan; 14/04/2009 at 12:42 PM.
Im not even sure there are 16 viable candidates Dodge but if a club is being run in the right manner I would have them in.
Osarusan, hi. The league has been around since 1921, but that is not an indicator of doing something right now. Times change, and 90 years history doesn't guarantee the future. I don't think we have any shiny new stadia in the League of Ireland. We certainly have a new stand here and there, but I don't think we built it and they didn't come. I think you are overestimating the current level of infrastructure.
Clubs should only pay out what they can afford. Needing 5000 people to come in the gate a week is not a suitable business plan. You create your business around reality and not hopes. Dreams are good to have, but solid goals and realistic targets are what is needed. Clubs pay too much on wages. If not doing that doesn't get the players then that is what will happen, but at least it would give clubs the chance to build correctly rather than racing for glory, exploding due to costs and start again... (or worse go out of business)
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I would agree with most of this - the one point being that I think people really overestimate the difference a change in the structure of the league will have on its sustainability.
Everybody wants to see the league be both sustainable and at a higher level than it is now.
But I haven't seen any ideas that I think will bring us closer to that goal.
I think to get a more sustainable model you need sustainable clubs and not clubs spending way above the odds. It will mean a lower caliber of player in the league perhaps but I would rather that than by numerous clubs battling for survival in the courts etc
Then we look to develop the league into an option for you g talent
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How is your model - 16 team Premier and removing the other six to a developmental, regional league, with some top clubs merging by my reading? - going to improve that though?
The problem is that the last few years have given people a much inflated opinion of where the league is. We need to come back down to reality and then try and build slowly from there by doing the basics right. Maybe that mightn't "work", in the sense of European success, 5000 crowds, etc. But that doesn't mean it's the wrong tack.
I agree completely.
But I just don't see how changing the number of teams or structure of the league will help this, or that they need be connected at all.
ok the 16 team point was merely because I think league where you only play each other twice seems to be a common thread amongst the most successful leagues. If that can be done with less cool. The point is the reason rather run the specific number
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in my opinion there is not enough talent or interest to support a 16 team top flight.
The two tier system (parttime/fulltime) will not work.
Fulltime football is unsustainable in the leagues current form.
The way the league is structured at the moment there is a possibility that, say, Cork fold, Drogheda and Galway get relegated and replaced by Shels. UCD and S. Fingal. The top tier will have 7 dublin area clubs and 3 regional clubs. This is not sustainable.
The solution is difficult. Bitter pills will have to be swallowed but in my opinion,
there should be a 16 team amateur club league which feeds 4 to 6 profesional regional teams (all ireland). These teams play in a pro celtic league with 4 welsh teams. If this were to succeed, Scottish clubs sick of the rangers /celtic domination may consider joining. Yes the league looses its european places to the new celtic league but in its current form, no success will be achieved.
I live in Boston at the moment and regularly attend NE revolution games. I have been to football matches all over the world and I firmly believe that tapping in on the marketing and promotion done bu the IRFU is the way forward.
There is a club rugby match happening soon in dublin that will sell out a 80000 stadium. To ignore the success of pro rugby will be the death of the league.
I realize nobody here would be a fan of this idea but its been on my mind for about 10 years and as the leagues in Ireland, NI and Wales hit problem after problem, I grow more and more frustrated.
Appologies for the rant
Ruairi
we looked from Montrose to Swords, from swords to Montrose and from Montrose to Swords again but already it was impossible to spot UCDs right winger
But, again, the number is irrellevant as those leagues are not succesful because the teams only play each other twice.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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Dodge, last time on this, I think playing opposition twice is a better option than three or four times. I cite the fact major leagues only play twice as a reference to it being done. It's a very minor factor but just one I mentioned. I don't think it is anything more than that. 16 was just a number I seen as being able to sustain playing twice. Plus it fit withmy removal of a first division.
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I just think a league that includes all available financially viable clubs from both divisions is a better platform than what we have in terms of moving forward .Im not too hung up on the number of clubs in that league or the quality they would bring .The league administrators would really need to have a look at themselves in terms of what has been allowed to happen at Cork ,Bohs and Drogs they flagshiped these clubs and fuelled their expectations beyond reality.
Last edited by RoversHead; 14/04/2009 at 1:55 PM.
i think this is a fascinating debate with some very good arguements. A 16 team league does sound appealing but i think it is flawed in this country for a number of reasons:
1) we only have 22 league clubs. unless clubs are in the shake up for the top or trying to avoid bottom the remaining 10 or 12 teams in the league have nothing really to play for.
2) Countries that generally have 16 to 20 teams in their league have population basis almost 10 times the size of ireland
3) Whilst I agree lower teams need the top clubs going to their place for a bumper gate the standard of the football in the league will diminish.
Overall i believe a 10 team league is the way forward. although 4 series of games may seem frustrating to some, teams have a fighting chance against each other and class differences are not as great.
I think where we have gone wrong, and especially with the A league is that the 1st has never been given much publicity and the A League gets even less. My thoughts on how are league should be run would be a 10 team premier and a 10 team first along with 2 10 team A Championship. (although I still don't understand the relevance of the A Championship. Could this not of incorporated the U21 teams instead of reserves).
My ideas don't go against the grain here but I think while the league is far from perfect, we all get bogged down in what is bad with our league and some clubs allow the knockers more ammo against us, there are good points to be taken from the league and these good points should be only talked about.
It is easy for us to sit on our LOI pedastal and proclaim the we support true football and then constantly knock the league at the perfect opportunity. There is no easy solution to the problems but our problems are representative of all leagues outside the top 5 (England, Italy, Spain, France & Germany). every other league is losing supporters to the television, xbox, ps2, ds lite and wii.
Last edited by jinxy lilywhite; 14/04/2009 at 2:25 PM.
Long Live King Kenny
And to have thread titles that actually say what the thread is about in the first place.
Standards have slipped badly on foot.ie.....
Talk ballsAnd to have thread titles that actually say what the thread is about in the first place.
Standards have slipped badly on foot.ie.....
In fairness the original topic on this thread was nothing to do with what is being talked about now.And to have thread titles that actually say what the thread is about in the first place.
Standards have slipped badly on foot.ie.....
So try and actually read what was originally asked before you go talking sh1te.
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