Cork City Future.

**Marco** · 13/04/2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by don ramo

actually we did submit audited accounts, they may have been late but we submitted them,

we didnt get a tax cert and were rightly relegated, if we had enough of a fan base the fans could have scrapped together a down payment, and the club agree a payback period, which is exactly what city done, and look where they are,

it really is one rule for one and another for the big clubs,

city are able to earn good money, by having the draw of premier football and they should have done what drogs done and cut cost way down, they had every advantage to get the club going but choose not to, why??, i would really love to know,

we had a nearly 66% drop (based on our average attendance the last 5 years) at our first home game friday night in the A league, thats massive, were looseing major money in sponsorship for the year, we are asking a lot of our youth section to help the club the club back on its legs, and i truely hope they are rewarded for there efforts, there making huge commitments for the club, im very envious and ****ed off that cork city couldnt get there act together, they have every advantage to do so,

They have a huge advantage is all aspects, but for Cobh the club has huge potential but only if the personal differences are left outside the gate. The A league will sot out who is actually behind the club.

**Buile Shuibhne** · 13/04/2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by John83

The examinership process may have dealt with the tax clearance - Cork would have come out of it with an agreement for repaying it.

I'm kind of loath to comment on a rumour, though it does seem plausible Cork are gone, but I find it surprising that the club were allowed out of examinership without a business plan capable of keeping them afloat for six months. Either they haven't kept to the plan they set out, or the examiner screwed up here. Aportioning blame is hard without seeing a lot of details here.

I find it hard to believe that Cork would have build up a high tax � as is been speculated here � having presumably wiped their slate clear under much reduced terms in coming out of examinership.

Examinership was sought because the club owed its creditors �1.3 million, including �360,000 to the Revenue Commissioners. A number of players and staff had to be let go and the fortnightly wages bill had been reduced from �91,000 to �71,000.
��
The Revenue would receive 16.96 per cent of what it was owed under the scheme, the judge said. If the football team was successful in the final of the Setanta Cup on November 1st, that figure could rise to 24.6 per cent.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...108325510.html

Came across this article too
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...523343071.html

**don ramo** · 13/04/2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Buile Shuibhne

I find it hard to believe that Cork would have build up a high tax � as is been speculated here � having presumably wiped their slate clear under much reduced terms in coming out of examinership.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...108325510.html

Came across this article too
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...523343071.html

you cant write off tax as bad debth, unless your liquidated,

any accountants here that can back it up either way,

**Buile Shuibhne** · 13/04/2009, 11:35 AM

Yeah but the max debt tax they carried forward was 90k under the terms of the examinership. Even if they haven't since paid one cent off that - I can't see them since having built up a tax debt of 200K / 300k / 400k or especially 500k as has been bandied about on the interweb forums the past couple of days.

**WexCar** · 13/04/2009, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by Buile Shuibhne

Yeah but the max debt tax they carried forward was 90k under the terms of the examinership. Even if they haven't since paid one cent off that - I can't see them since having built up a tax debt of 200K / 300k / 400k or especially 500k as has been bandied about on the interweb forums the past couple of days.

interest builds up on unpaid tax bills very quickly at a very unreasonable rate so its not impossible

**Dunny** · 13/04/2009, 3:19 PM

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/new-f ... 07100.html

Apologies if this was already posted.

**Saint Tom** · 13/04/2009, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by irishultra

eh ye but what i mean is that they are like the only league club in the second biggest county. they just seem to have so much potential and if i was a casual loi fan i would probably support them. i have a few of their jerseys, plus look at all the players they have developed like kevin doyle.

top club.

they did really well to develop him all by themselves in 18 months didnt they?

**Dodge** · 13/04/2009, 5:51 PM

Good spot Tom, missed that

**Scrufil** · 13/04/2009, 5:55 PM

Dunny the Herald piece contains, like here, a lot of speculation. Normally there is no fire without smoke. It will be interesting to see which way the flames fan.

**Gareth** · 13/04/2009, 5:58 PM

I just can't see how clubs can operate on a fortnightly wage bill of 71k. 142k a month is a huge bill for a club that could face two matches at home in a month, with an average attendance of 2500 (am I being unfair with this, I am going to three or four home games I looked back on). That could be 5000 on an average entrance of 13 euro (I'm judging the attendance to be made up of freebies, children, OAP's and adults)

So based on that 65k comes in from the crowd. You have shops and bars, but you also have staff, insurance, general costs of lighting, heating, phones, stationary and security.

That means you are looking at 77k worth of a shortfall each month to be covered by advertising, sponsorship, and hand outs.

I am all for positivity and the development of the league, but when did running up huge debts by financing wages alone form any kind of model for a successful business. Talking about professional leagues is one thing but the reality of running it is another and if we continue to believe in these things,then the future is a league in constant crisis.

Money should not be invested in wages, but player development, facilities and infrastructure.

**Dunny** · 13/04/2009, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by Scrufil

Dunny the Herald piece contains, like here, a lot of speculation. Normally there is no fire without smoke. It will be interesting to see which way the flames fan.

I know that, I never said otherwise.

**Martinho II** · 13/04/2009, 7:11 PM

Yet again there has to be a bad news story hitting the eircom league when will this ever end? I read that article from a ex cork city fan in last sundays mail on sunday and it really brought it home to me what he had to go through. It is a disgrace the way Coughlin is running the club to the ground he really made things hard for himself by axing Matthews.As for Paul Doolin in hindsight he should have stayed at Drogs. I feel sorry for Doolin though that he has to go thro this sh!t twice in a year.

If ye have to start all over again so be it. It did no harm to limerick who are a better run club and they changed the name of the club too.

I wish the cork fans all the best .They really need all the fortune over the next few yrs and mths.

**Umberside** · 13/04/2009, 8:43 PM

A debt of 77k is ridiculous. By the end of the season it will amount to 618k debt. By the end of July we would be in 308k debt already. There is also 250k owed to the Revenue Commissioners and Alan Mathews is looking for 300k because he was sacked. So a total of 1,168,000 of debt would be run up by the end of the season.

On a 91k shortfall per month (during the Arkaga era), by the end of July they had lost 364k. Taking into account they were in charge from December and no income until start of March then 271k would've been built up by the start of the season. So by 14 August (the date last year we entered examinership) we would've been in 635k debt. Plus there was unknown money owed to creditors of almost 700k to make the total loss by 14 August 2008 over 1.3 million euro.

So far we are only in about 100k debt so if someone can act quickly then we'll be easily saved as 100k isn't too hard to pay (in football finance terms). The new owner(s) could pay the 250k owed to the Revenue Commissioners, tell Mathews to **** off and cut the wages or sell some of the highest-earning players. If Coughlan sells without saying the club is in serious debt then the whole situation will be resolved without anyone raising an eyebrow. Problem solved

**Longfordian** · 13/04/2009, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Umberside

So far we are only in about 100k debt so if someone can act quickly then we'll be easily saved as 100k isn't too hard to pay (in football finance terms). The new owner(s) could pay the 250k owed to the Revenue Commissioners, tell Mathews to **** off and cut the wages or sell some of the highest-earning players. If Coughlan sells without saying the club is in serious debt then the whole situation will be resolved without anyone raising an eyebrow. Problem solved

Yes, that'll do it. If he wins his case then he'll have to be paid whatever he's awarded one way or another or else you'll go bankrupt. Plus nobody is going to buy any of your players and they most likely won't agree to any further cuts so will either stay on on their current wage or walk for nothing.

**Umberside** · 13/04/2009, 9:15 PM

Originally Posted by Longfordian

Plus nobody is going to buy any of your players and they most likely won't agree to any further cuts so will either stay on on their current wage or walk for nothing.

I couldn't disagree more. Joe Gamble, Colin Healy, Dan Murray and Guntars Silagailis. Those four players are better than any four let's say St Patrick's Athletic or Dundalk could come up with, and who do you have at Longford by the way?

**Poor Student** · 13/04/2009, 9:19 PM

I think he means no club is going to bother paying anything other than a nominal fee to a publicly known stressed seller. Clubs will gladly take those players and others but for little or nothing.

**Longfordian** · 13/04/2009, 9:19 PM

You're missing the point. They won't pay money for them as they don't have it and the chances are they won't have to. That's what you mean by selling them, right?. Nobody will match their wages either. You're probably the highest paying club in the league this year if your reported wage bill of 140k a month is accurate.

Edit: As Poor Student has pointed out.

**Umberside** · 13/04/2009, 9:21 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I think he means no club is going to bother paying anything other than a nominal fee to a publicly known stressed seller. Clubs will gladly take those players and others but for little or nothing.

It's a shame alright that nearly all the transfer money generated is by selling players to British clubs. I can't think of any player who was "bought" during the last transfer window between LOI clubs either.

**Longfordian** · 13/04/2009, 9:27 PM

Mostly because clubs can't afford fees. Or wages but that's another story. The only fees that arise lately would seem to be compensation for under 23s who are out of contract. Most players move when their contracts are up as free agents.

**Umberside** · 13/04/2009, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by Longfordian

Mostly because clubs can't afford fees. Or wages but that's another story. The only fees that arise lately would seem to be compensation for under 23s who are out of contract. Most players move when their contracts are up as free agents.

We might be able to ship something across the Irish Sea though because we've done so for five years running.