Easter Lilys

an allergy i bet

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I mean't exactly what I said. The lilly has been politicised and sectarianised into a religious badge in Northern Ireland, far away from its original intention, in exactly the same way as the poppy.

I know you meant it, I just do not know how you are making a connection between the leaders of the 1916 and Catholicism. I don't agree with the poppy but I do not think it has been made into a religious badge, and neither has the Easter lily. Forgive me if you prove me wrong, but your posts suggests that this is your personal interpretation and assumption that it has been made into a religious symbol which is just plainly false.

Originally Posted by rory h

an allergy i bet

Wum!!

Originally Posted by celticV3

I know you meant it, I just do not know how you are making a connection between the leaders of the 1916 and Catholicism. I don't agree with the poppy but I do not think it has been made into a religious badge, and neither has the Easter lily. Forgive me if you prove me wrong, but your posts suggests that this is your personal interpretation and assumption that it has been made into a religious symbol which is just plainly false.

How long have/did you live in Northern Ireland for?

BTW my point was precisely that the lily has nothing to do with 1916 for many wearers.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

How long have/did you live in Northern Ireland for?

BTW my point was precisely that the lily has nothing to do with 1916 for many wearers.

What has that to do with anything? I was in Belfast at the weekend, and although I do not know why I need to say this but there were many protestant wearers of the lily from Belfast and around the north. It is not the symbol of religious superiority that you are claiming it to be.

What do you think it means to them and what are the basis for your claims?

Originally Posted by celticV3

What has that to do with anything? I was in Belfast at the weekend, and although I do not know why I need to say this but there were many protestant wearers of the lily from Belfast and around the north. It is not the symbol of religious superiority that you are claiming it to be.

What do you think it means to them and what are the basis for your claims?

How many Northern Protestants were wearing the lily? I've NEVER known one to wear one.

Also, I never mentioned superiority, that was your word. I would use the word identity instead.

I know the whole idea of it all being religion driven offends your Shinner ideology, but the lily is yet another Northern tribalist adornment.

If it really was about 1916, surely a lot more people in the Republic would wear them? I didn't see many this weekend.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

How many Northern Protestants were wearing the lily? I've NEVER known one to wear one.

Also, I never mentioned superiority, that was your word. I would use the word identity instead.

I know the whole idea of it all being religion driven offends your Shinner ideology, but the lily is yet another Northern tribalist adornment.

If it really was about 1916, surely a lot more people in the Republic would wear them? I didn't see many this weekend.

Being called a shinner is more offensive to me

What does it matter there religion? You keep claiming that you have never known one follower of protestantism to wear a lily, that is a generalisation based on your own experiences and is not applicable to everyone who wears a lily. A sweeping generalisation from you is not proof of tribalism, just that your are comfortable making such sweeping generalisations.

At a glance the reason that most people down south would not be wearing them is because they are not widely available. It is unfortunately rare that people are out selling Easter lily's, something which is being looked into for next year and the coming years.

Originally Posted by celticV3

What does it matter there religion? You keep claiming that you have never known one follower of protestantism to wear a lily, that is a generalisation based on your own experiences and is not applicable to everyone who wears a lily. A sweeping generalisation from you is not proof of tribalism, just that your are comfortable making such sweeping generalisations.

What he said was "I've NEVER known one to wear one." ["one" = Northern Protestant]

This isn't a "sweeping generalisation" as he is only talking about his personal experience. If he had said "No northern protestant has EVER worn one, or would ever wear one", that would be a sweeping generalisation.

Originally Posted by celticV3

What has that to do with anything? I was in Belfast at the weekend, and although I do not know why I need to say this but there were many protestant wearers of the lily from Belfast and around the north. It is not the symbol of religious superiority that you are claiming it to be.

What do you think it means to them and what are the basis for your claims?

I would be very surprised to see a Northern Protestant wearing an Easter lily....

Originally Posted by celticV3

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you wear an Easter lily to commemorate those who fought for Irish independence in 1916?

I can't believe it ...I just typed an expansive answer to this and the Browser crashed. Maybe the suitably offended ghost of Pearse is better at f**king up IT platforms than he was at revolutionary activity.

Saw these for sale in the local last week. There was no set charge just a charity box type thing where you were able to put in whatever amount you thought appropriate.

I was going to get one, but there was not one indication on the box as to where the funds go, so I didn't get one. Anyone know where the money goes?

Originally Posted by joey4ireland

I assume it goes towards financing Sin Fein as they are the only group i know of who sells them

Thats what I thought alright. I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter, but I would be a supporter of the uprising. I'm as well off not buying one and pay my respects in my own way I suppose.

Originally Posted by osarusan

What he said was "I've NEVER known one to wear one." ["one" = Northern Protestant]

This isn't a "sweeping generalisation" as he is only talking about his personal experience. If he had said "No northern protestant has EVER worn one, or would ever wear one", that would be a sweeping generalisation.

He had said before that post, that it is a tribalistic symbol that was used for religious triumphalism, which is completely untrue.

Originally Posted by Den Perry

I would be very surprised to see a Northern Protestant wearing an Easter lily....

Can I ask why? As I have said, the Easter lily is not a religious symbol. In fact the first time I have ever heard the notion of this is on this forum.

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Thats what I thought alright. I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter, but I would be a supporter of the uprising. I'm as well off not buying one and pay my respects in my own way I suppose.

Thats fair enough. Wouldn't buy one from PSF myself but would get one from other groups and attended a march as well.

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Saw these for sale in the local last week. There was no set charge just a charity box type thing where you were able to put in whatever amount you thought appropriate.

I was going to get one, but there was not one indication on the box as to where the funds go, so I didn't get one. Anyone know where the money goes?

Depends who your buying from. I guess best way is just ask who ever is selling them where the funds are going.

Originally Posted by celticV3

Can I ask why? As I have said, the Easter lily is not a religious symbol. In fact the first time I have ever heard the notion of this is on this forum.

I would have thought that was obvious. its associated with Republicanism / Nationalism. How many Northern Protestants are Republican / Nationalist?

Originally Posted by Den Perry

I would have thought that was obvious. its associated with Republicanism / Nationalism. How many Northern Protestants are Republican / Nationalist?

Why is everything dragged back to religion? It is indeed a republican symbol but there are many republicans who are from protestant backgrounds, this can be seen through history and now in the north.

Actually, more than that, it is inextricably linked with the provisional movement - cf the origin of the term "stickie" to denote the southern republicans (Mac Giolla et al) who were more interested in pursuing a socialist agenda rather than a republican agenda, leading to the creation of the provisional movement in the north. The southern republicans had stick-on lilies whereas the northern republicans had pinned-on ones (I think), hence the term "stickies". So for a lot of people the wearing of the Easter Lily is perceived not a commemoration of 1916 but rather an expression of support for the more modern (provisional) IRA.

I got talking to an elderly Irish gentleman a few years ago around November time who happened to be wearing a poppy. Anyway, the poppy came up in conversation after a while and he said he wore it to remember Irishmen who had died during the World Wars. When I put to him that people might think he condoned British military action in Afghanistan and Iraq by wearing a poppy in Dublin, he rubbished this and said he knew why he was wearing it and that was all that mattered.

Now personally I wouldn't wear a poppy, but it's in this vein that I would wear the Easter Lily. I wear it to remember the Rising and the subsequent War of Independence. For a lot of people it has to do with the Provos, but I know why I wear it and that's all that matters to me.

I would not wear a lily as I feel it is associated with the IRA. I also would not like to provide funds to that organisation.