Kevin Foley

[Charlie Darwin]

I had to laugh when I saw the Herald quote a family member as saying it's "like Saipan all over again."

http://www.herald.ie/news/foley-fami...k-3124710.html

[DannyInvincible]

I had to laugh when I saw the Herald quote a family member as saying it's "like Saipan all over again."

http://www.herald.ie/news/foley-fami...k-3124710.html

That's ridiculous.

Surely this is worse!

[Irwin3]

I think Kevin Foley is being pretty immature in his reaction. He was not betrayed. At the last minute, and weighing up certain players, Trappatoni felt McShane was a more versatile defender. I don't necessarily agree with the decision but I can see the logic behind it and even if Foley is 100% sure Trap is making a mistake then he still needs to keep his trap shut and take it like a man. He is one of many young players and I understand his disappointment but he wasn't betrayed and I think he and his family need to be a bit more grown up about it.

"to disappoint the hopes or expectations of". Sounds like a betrayal to me.

I think it's more immature to tell someone to 'keep his trap shut and take it like a man'. He's a 27 year old grown man and he can say what he wants.

Named in squad May 7th.
Meet up with squad and train/get fit.
Travel to Italy and train/get ready to play.
Get pulled over in training on May 29th 30 minutes before UEFA squad deadline to be told you are out of the squad.

I feel for the guy a lot. Just read from the herald article that his son was born three weeks ago as well. Foley must have felt like he did his part of the deal by dedicating his time to the team and getting fit. So to have the rug pulled out from under him at the last second must have made him feel betrayed and that he has had the **** taken out of him.

[SkStu]

The Foley family practicing their display for the Croatian game...

TRAP = JUDAS

[osarusan]

From the RTE article linked earlier.

Much of the criticism levelled at Trapattoni has centred around his decision not to name a larger initial squad of 26 or 27 players and then reduce it closer to the deadline.

However, he was unequivocal in his view that disappointing four or five players is the same as disappointing one.

Trapattoni said: "You have to think that 50km from here there is another national team (Italy). They have 32 players. Think about the nine players that go back.

I don't agree with Trap at all about this. If he names people in a provisional squad, then they're aware of the possibility that they might not make the final squad - or to put it more accurately, the concern about not making the final squad is much more immediate if the first squad named is provisional. Had he done this, and then told 3 or 4 players (or only Foley) that they didn't make the final squad, I don't think there would be any fuss or talk of 'betrayal' at all.

But the way he went about it meant that Foley believed (reasonably, in my opinion) that he was in the squad for certain.

So when I read comments that 'he has to make the right decisions for the team', I think they miss the point because he wouldn't have have put himself or Foley in the situation they were in had he done things differently earlier.

[jbyrne]

So when I read comments that 'he has to make the right decisions for the team', I think they miss the point because he wouldn't have have put himself or Foley in the situation they were in had he done things differently earlier.

but they were not aware when the squad was named that 3 or 4 defenders would be injury concerns. we also lost fahey who has played right back before.

the outcry about this by some is ridiculous and just smacks of people wanting something to fill their pages and time before the tournament gets going. given the injury concerns if trap had left us short in central defence cover he would be battered by fans and media alike. he cant win. tough as it is on foley its actually the squad and what trap thinks his best way of covering himself is thats important.

ive never been in one but i would suspect that extended squads with a number of lads battering each other to get into the final squad, diluted tactics sessions given a few lads wont be ultimately involved and the constant wondering whos in and out are distractions not needed in the build up. naming 27 or so back at the start of May would not have been ideal at all

[osarusan]

but they were not aware when the squad was named that 3 or 4 defenders would be injury concerns. we also lost fahey who has played right back before.

given the injury concerns if trap had left us short in central defence cover he would be battered by fans and media alike. he cant win.

Big difference between being dropped from a squad because you're injured like Fahey and being dropped after regaining fitness like Foley.

I've no argument with Trap picking whatever he feels is the best squad. My issue is with the way he went about it - he could easily have avoided the situation he put himself and Foley in.

I disagree completely that naming a provisional squad would have created the problems you've suggested.

[SwanVsDalton]

There's merits in both arguments but at some point don't we just have to say this guy's picked a few tourney squads, he knows what he's at? Trap clearly outlined his thinking early and explained he's had problems with extended provisional squads.

[Stuttgart88]

Facts:
- Foley was named in initial squad
- JOS got injured subsequently, but said he'd recover
- Dunne is an injury risk having come back from broken collar bone
- Sledge and O'Dea have picked up knocks subsequently
- Fahey is out and replaced by an out-and-out midfielder. This diminished Foley's value as midfield cover.
- JOS injury clearly remains a concern
- All this means that CB cover has increased in priority
- Trap has explained this quite clearly - read the quote I posted from The Examiner if anyone's in doubt
- It's devastating for Foley and everyone is gutted for him
- There was no easy way to take a hard decision

My opinions:
- Foley hasn't been that impressive for us when he did play, bar maybe in CM v NI reserves (I think).
- Had McShane played Macedonia onside like Foley did he'd have been crucified on foot.ie. Foley got away with it because he's more popular.
- Everyone's getting carried away - life can be tough. Business is tough, sport is tough. We're talking about 2 players who have barely featured in competitive action for us in nearly 3 years i.e., we're debating the lower orders.
- McShane doesn't convince me but I don't think he's as bad as many say. At this level I fear that he'll be exposed.
- I think Wilson would have been a better call up, and even despite the "facts" above I think we could have retained Foley.
- I hope that McShane hasn't leapfrogged Kelly in the pecking order, which is a suspicion I have.

[geysir]

I think McShane would be in 3rd place at best for RB and for any opening at CH, quite a feat considering the classic squad format of having 2 players for each outfield position.

[paul_oshea]

There's merits in both arguments but at some point don't we just have to say this guy's picked a few tourney squads, he knows what he's at? Trap clearly outlined his thinking early and explained he's had problems with extended provisional squads.

Ya and he did very poorly in both tourney squads ; )

Just because someone has done something before, whether good or bad, doesn't mean they will do it good thereafter, but you would hope that he would learn from past mistakes and experiences.

[paul_oshea]

Facts:

- I hope that McShane hasn't leapfrogged Kelly in the pecking order, which is a suspicion I have.

And that suspicion that you have, does that not make you realise that most of your previous points would then be nulled? Traps inital decision masquerading as a fitness problem.

[Stuttgart88]

No, I don't think Trap would be as dishonest as that. He's man enough to take tough decisions without lying about their justification.

I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that if JOS is injured Kelly will play RB but that McShane is more likely than Kelly to step in as CB, even though Kelly was also seen as CB cover. Let's not forget that DO'D is first reserve CB.

However, now McShane is definitely in the picture Trap might think hes a better option than Kelly at RB. Kelly was more deserving of an initial squad place because he can play RB, LB and CB.

[SwanVsDalton]

Ya and he did very poorly in both tourney squads ; )

Just because someone has done something before, whether good or bad, doesn't mean they will do it good thereafter, but you would hope that he would learn from past mistakes and experiences.

Exactly. He outlined why he operated this squad this way, his past experience led him to the conclusion. If anything this situation simply shows selecting a tourney squad is a tough gig.

I don't like using the argument 'we don't know' but the unerring conviction of how squads should be selected on this thread is getting self-parodic.

[jbyrne]

Big difference between being dropped from a squad because you're injured like Fahey and being dropped after regaining fitness like Foley.

my point was that fahey leaving the squad affected our defensive cover given he has played rb for birmingham a number of times. i was not putting the 2 players leaving the squad in the same bracket.

I've no argument with Trap picking whatever he feels is the best squad. My issue is with the way he went about it - he could easily have avoided the situation he put himself and Foley in.

no nice way of telling someone they're out of the squad. the reasoning why it happened has been discussed to death here. Trap is many things but being able to predict injury concerns 3 or 4 weeks before the squad assembled is not one of them. circumstances overtook his original final squad plans. you could argue that trap actually did the best thing by leaving it right till the last minute to make a call. again, the squad comes before any player.

I disagree completely that naming a provisional squad would have created the problems you've suggested.

having players around that have little chance of making the squad can be disruptive. the squad can lose focus also if the manager has to involve 4 or 5 players in training who ultimately wont be involved. far better to train, go through tactics beside those you will actually find yourself on the pitch beside than with players who will be on a beach by the time the matches commence. look at hunts stroppy reaction last sat to not getting a game. can you imagine another 4 or 5 on the bench eager to get a game and impress but ultimately dont get a run?

[tetsujin1979]

look at hunts stroppy reaction last sat to not getting a game. can you imagine another 4 or 5 on the bench eager to get a game and impress but ultimately dont get a run?

He seemed fine in the post game lap of honour, laughing and joking with Trapattoni.

[DannyInvincible]

He seemed fine in the post game lap of honour, laughing and joking with Trapattoni.

Hunt is impulsive. He'd probably already forgotten about it.

[paul_oshea]

Like a Dog?

[osarusan]

my point was that fahey leaving the squad affected our defensive cover given he has played rb for birmingham a number of times. i was not putting the 2 players leaving the squad in the same bracket.

Ok, sorry I misinterpreted that. I thought you were.

you could argue that trap actually did the best thing by leaving it right till the last minute to make a call

Isn't this exactly what he didn't do? He made a call (definitive rather than provisional), then had to make another call due to injuries.

More than anything though, I guess I agree with SwanvDalton's point that there is no perfect way to go about it, and we should give an experienced manager the leeway to make the decisions.

I just think it's a sickeningly cruel way for a player to miss out (and I'm not saying others don't feel the same way, everybody does) and I'd love for it to have been avoided. If other posters on here feel it was just unavoidable given the injuries, then fair enough.

[DannyInvincible]

Like a Dog?

The image of him frenziedly chasing after a stick on the beach and returning it back to his owner in mouth doesn't actually seem so surreal when I envisage it.