If the poor choose to drink or smoke or the rich for that matter whell then that is their choice. There is a big difference between taxes like Paye and the tax on Fags. The only reason I would not have put up the tax on fags more is because it may have resulted in a lost of money due to the black market fags.
In Trap we trust
How can the targeting of those under twenty be constitutional? If you're an adult, you're an adult, and entitled to equal treatment by the state. Maybe because they don't expect them to get as much airtime on Joe Duffy's show as the pensioners did over the medical card issue? I'm astounded that such blatant age discrimination is going almost unremarked.
A leading authority on League of Ireland football since 2003. You're probably wrong.
Just playing devils advoicate here but is there not already pre cedent in this area in that over 65s get a pension from the state. Technicallyl this is age discrmination. I think most people are against disrimination if you ask the but actually it is a fundamental part of a modern society. I dont think there is not a society out there that does not believe or have polcies that involve discrimination usually its for the good of the people and society but not always.
In Trap we trust
You make a good point. I beleive it is seen as they have probably contributed the least to the economy in monetary terms .ie not long out of school and probably not third level inclined thus they have been the ones on the min wage and not contributing in tax payments. I also have a sneaking idea that the government sees these people as the potential next emigration candidates thus taking away the exspense of keeping them and eventually housing them.Originally Posted by Sheridan
Maybe I am just being cynical
I'll update this next year.
Tax relief on mortgages not applying to those who bought over 7 years while benefiting me is a little strange as I would have thought those who bought in recent years hit hardest by negative equity.
Haven't looked at details to know how affects me beyond the PAYE "levy".
From what I can see so far no imagination & innovation, just tax, tax & more tax. Also also no attempts to reduce government spending. I also don't think the money raised will be enough as economy will only get worse - I guess will have another budget around August this year.
If a poor person chooses to smoke tough luck. Any one who wants to quit can do it if they really want to. Smoking is a choice like drinking.
I also guess the government pay benchmarked to similar size countries will be a futile exercise. What are the odds they selectively choose high income Scandinavian countries to link their pay? What is it with this country that need to setup bodies to investigate everything? If Cowan wanted to reduce government pay why did he not just do it!
As predicted everyone wants taxes to rise but on themselves.
It is a heavy regressive tax which hits the poorest hardest - furthermore they are taxing a highly addictive drug, they are little better than drug dealers.
If the poorest people can be expected to shoulder such an excesive rate of tax, why not the rich?
It is also a tax which results in many childen growing up in poverty, so the rich can aoid paying their fair share of tax - that's immoral.
Yea, they will like their pay to most corrupt govenment they can find - maybe link it to MP's expense claims in the UK!Tax relief on mortgages not applying to those who bought over 7 years while benefiting me is a little strange as I would have thought those who bought in recent years hit hardest by negative equity.
Haven't looked at details to know how affects me beyond the PAYE "levy".
From what I can see so far no imagination & innovation, just tax, tax & more tax. Also also no attempts to reduce government spending. I also don't think the money raised will be enough as economy will only get worse - I guess will have another budget around August this year.
If a poor person chooses to smoke tough luck. Any one who wants to quit can do it if they really want to. Smoking is a choice like drinking.
I also guess the government pay benchmarked to similar size countries will be a futile exercise. What are the odds they selectively choose high income Scandinavian countries to link their pay? What is it with this country that need to setup bodies to investigate everything? If Cowan wanted to reduce government pay why did he not just do it!
As predicted everyone wants taxes to rise but on themselves.
Last edited by dahamsta; 08/04/2009 at 1:44 AM.
And I'm sure their opinion is that smokers are little better than weak-minded morons.
(I'm being facetious. As it happens a good number of pols are smokers, and I'm an ex-smoker that still has a puff every few months in the pub. I'm guessing you're not being facetious though, and I have to wonder at that. Smoking is tricky to give up, but it's not coke or heroin; people don't need to be put in clinics to get off them, they just get a bit fat and snappy. If someone is a smoker and they consider fags a tax, they can take a hint from tax avoiders and stop paying tax: Quit.)
adam
Its also better for the unemployment figures , if they can keep them in training , school, college etc. one point made, was that a guy of 19 who has never worker is entitled to the same amount as the guy who's worked 30 years and gets laid off.
I think we all know people who are recieving social welfare who deserve it & others who don't. Middle income families were hit worst yesterday , those who have to pay for everything because their working. The only thing that has hit welfare payments is the christmas bonus. They still have medical cards, social housing etc. The whole social welfare system needs to be changed, to give more help to those that need it & less to those that are lazy or milking the system. What incentive is there for a guy straight out of school to take up a job , when he can get €200 for nothing
Last edited by dahamsta; 08/04/2009 at 11:35 AM.
It was a poor budget for my household, with the prospect of child benefit and further tax increases next year, we're going to have to severely cut our cloth. It'll probably drive us into the black economy for our childcare, and we'll be doing more than just beer runs to the North.
They're basing the "bad bank" model on countries that nationalised the banks first. It's a total nonsense to leave them in private ownership whilst taking their bad loans. I have no faith that they'll pay the right price for the tax payer, when they've a direct vested interest in helping out the bankers who so conveniently couldn't provide information for the tribunals, and helping the developers that have funded FF for decades (both up front and back hand). It looks nothing more than (yet another) bail out of their backers.
btw, nicotine is more addictive than smack.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
And weren't in the midst of a recession at the time...
A leading authority on League of Ireland football since 2003. You're probably wrong.
yeah def agree with this
Man what a silly budget - sure they wont save any money out of all this
Raising taxes again and still the social welfare hasnt been even touched - sure thats a joke
Still all the quangos, still all the junior ministers, still Fas and its nice budget, still the spending on the army, etc etc
Do they not realise that this country is bankrupt
The banks are as good as nationalized Macy. Govt is on the hook for pretty much everything, political pressure is being applied on going easy on certain loans, they are being forced to increase their holdings of Govt sovereign debt. I'm not sure what nationalisation would add, unless you are talking about perpetual nationslisation?
In the Swedish example, it's worth noting that the new banks were private and Securum (the biggest bad bank) made a profit for the Government. The key issue is the price the bad bank pays for the loans. If it's done fairly, the banks will be pretty much bankrupted and will require further Govt investment.
As for the wider budget, as expected, painful. What worries me is that I see no way out of this with FF at the helm. They are so reactive, short-termist and lacking any vision whatsoever.
If the global economy picks up we will invariably see another lost generation leave Ireland.
Im open to correction but i think they cut the 200 euro dole for under 20's to 100 euro unless you are trying to further yourself ie re training/ course's etc etc.
guess thats incentive.
...Well we had a boom -and you'd have been shouted down at the time by Charlie McCreevy, Michael O'Leary, the McDowell , Bruton and Ahern Brothers, Biffo, IBEC, ISME and a whole host of others -many of whom have been vaunted of late in the media for roles in an emergency government of National unity.
"Don't you see Neil?", they'd have all said, "it's exactly because we're in a boom that we CAN'T raise tax ...to do so would be to pour sugar in the petrol tank of our roaring economy".
If I recall correctly -apparently it also wouldn't have sufficiently "rewarded" work, enterprise, entrepreneurialism and would have sent the "wrong signals" (like -we pay and charge commensurate tax here and expect you do so as well?) to the business community, wealth creators, tent attenders yadda-yadda-yadda...
For similar reasons we couldn't build the schools, hospitals and other trimmable fat the country can apparently cut back on as the construction workers weren't available or would've cost top dollar -as the government wasn't doing anything to deflate the construction bubble if it meant foregoing a penny of stamp duty.
Screwed either which way.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
They would have been wrong Lionel. If we had a more sustainable tax system all along rather than rely on short term taxes or transient taxes like Stamp Duty our situation would not be as bad as it is. The good times may not have been as good for the developers and we all might have been a little worse off during the good times but not much, but we would as a country be in a lot better situation than we are now.
In Trap we trust
Nationalisation would give the State the upside as well. At the moment the Government seem more concerned with protecting investors rather than the tax payer - this has been the case since the stupid guarantee. I suspect you are right, it is inevitable that there'll be further state funds, so they may as well get it over and done with now.
I have zero faith that we'll get a fair price - there isn't the will from Government to pursue the banks or developers, and certainly the banks are all about protecting themselves and their investors. Which is why I think nationalisation is needed - take these people out of the picture sooner rather than later.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I know and I completely agree -but you'd have been accused of downright Bolshevism by the O'Learys, McCreevys et al for holding that opinion is all I'm saying.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Sorry , that was the point i was making in reply to Sheridan saying it was wrong to cut the level for young people.
I just don't see an upside for the Govt to share in. The only thing they haven't done, which they should, is force regime change amongst senior management.
Maybe upside is the wrong term, but they're taking the risk whilst still giving investors potential return, which imo is very wrong.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks