'The game is up' for Kenny despite claim of complete support

**Ringo** · 31/03/2009, 7:10 AM

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...t-1692014.html

RICHARD Bruton's claim that Fine Gael is 100pc behind Enda Kenny was privately disputed by a number of Fine Gael TDs yesterday.

Mr Kenny is embroiled in a blazing row with dissident TDs over his leadership style.

With tensions still high after details of the explosive scenes emerged, the party leader meets with his TDs and Senators tonight.

Mr Kenny is refusing to say if he has resolved the clash with Lucinda Creighton and Ulick Burke that has overshadowed the party's solid opinion poll result.

After an argument with Mr Kenny, Ms Creighton accused him of being "patronising" and stormed out of a meeting a week ago.

He just doesn't have it. With FF going back up in the polls he's finished.

**bennocelt** · 31/03/2009, 7:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...t-1692014.html

He just doesn't have it. With FF going back up in the polls he's finished.

these polls are rubbish and propoganda tools - i mean in a poll of 800 people - jesus Finnharps just about get that many!!!

**Ringo** · 31/03/2009, 9:40 AM

So you think he's a good leader & hes the answer to all our problems

**osarusan** · 31/03/2009, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

So you think he's a good leader & hes the answer to all our problems

Where did he say that?

All he said is that a poll of 800 people (and I'm just taking his word for that) is not always reflective of the wider population.

Personally, if Kenny went to be replaced by Richard Bruton, I'd be happy, but it won't happen.

**Angus** · 31/03/2009, 10:51 AM

If FG want to hand the next election right now to FF, all they need to do is to change leader. It will instantly change the story, get FF off the front pages and will create internal FG chaos for months

It would also remove one fo FG's strenghts i.e. Bruton from a portfolio where he excels and they have a limited bench strength

Kenny cannot perform in front of the media - that is a given. But he is a skilful politician and would be a decent Taoiseach. Just because he is wooden in front of the media is no barometer of his ability to lead

So Lucinda is cheesed off ? Big f***ing deal

**pete** · 31/03/2009, 10:59 AM

Whether they like it or not FG are stuck with Kenny for the foreseeable future. He may not be great in the media (personally I think very difficult for non-Dubliner to win a General Election) but Bertie is gone now & Cowan isn't exactly a media mastermind. Kennys record has been fairly good since he took over. There will always be disputes in politicial parties.

Do people really still care about personality? Policies & ability to deliver are really all that should matter now.

**superfrank** · 31/03/2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by pete

Do people really still care about personality?

Just look at Bertie, Blair and Obama.

Surprise, surprise, the Indo having a go at FG.

Kenny's ok. I'd say he's better than Cowen, but the man who should be in charge of FG is Richard Bruton. He seems a lot more informed than Kenny and I think he's a better debater.

Also, Labour could do with Joan Burton replacing Gilmore.

**Sheridan** · 31/03/2009, 11:09 AM

Stop reading the Indo, Ringo, it's not doing you any favours.

**Lionel Ritchie** · 31/03/2009, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Where did he say that?

All he said is that a poll of 800 people (and I'm just taking his word for that) is not always reflective of the wider population.

Personally, if Kenny went to be replaced by Richard Bruton, I'd be happy, but it won't happen.

Not only is it not reflective -it falls some way short of scientific. I think the minimum number you're supposed to sample for a population our size is something like 1400. There's a formula for these things out there... 800 is certainly too small a sample.

**OneRedArmy** · 31/03/2009, 12:30 PM

There's no "right" number. Less people just increases the confidence intervals around the results, making them increasingly meaningless.

That aside, I think Kenny's failings are evident. I knew Lucinda was ambitious, but she's got even bigger cojones than I thought picking a battle with the party leader and she's only in the Dail a wet week. Methinks there are a few more senior party figures standing in the shadows behind her.

**Ringo** · 31/03/2009, 12:41 PM

She's defintely a stalking horse. Richard Bruton is the only real contender for leadership. The problem for FG is seeing Gilmore looking like the Taoiseach in waiting. I'm not sure where the figure of 800 came from for the poll, i'm not a great fan of polls myself, but they are a snap shot at a particulat time.

**Macy** · 31/03/2009, 1:14 PM

There's no guarantee that Bruton would win a leadership election anyway. The right wing idiots in the party will probably row in behind Varadker or someone useless like that. Nothing will happen this side of the locals, european and bye elections - if he doesn't meet (what are high) expectations then he'll be challenged if not necessarily gone. Probably true what we need is a good manager of a good team, rather than a one man show.

Having said all that, no surprise to see the Indo doing the FF bidding. FF in trouble in the polls, so lets stir up discontent in FG so they become a less viable alternative. Especially with their likely coalition parties calling for an end of tax shelters - that wouldn't suit Sir Anthony or Denis would it? They must be double sweating in their exotic tax havens...

Edit - It turns out Fionan Sheehan's missus is running for FF in the local elections, and he also wrote the story linked above.

**DaveyCakes** · 31/03/2009, 1:29 PM

Lucinda Creighton accusing someone of being patronising? Pot-Kettle

**mypost** · 31/03/2009, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by superfrank

Kenny's ok. I'd say he's better than Cowen, but the man who should be in charge of FG is Richard Bruton. He seems a lot more informed than Kenny and I think he's a better debater.

Also, Labour could do with Joan Burton replacing Gilmore.

Bruton reminds me too much of his da, who also didn't win an election. I don't see him as an authoritative, confident PM.

Kenny might be drier than the Spanish desert in mid-summer, but he's a competent alternative. Gilmore is the best performer in the Dail, and can hold his own in debates. Burton is the most disruptive however, often interrupting other TD's and the Ceann Comhairle with her annoying whine. Even the Leas CC who's in her own party, had to threaten to throw her out of the chamber last week, in order for her to shut up.

**jebus** · 31/03/2009, 2:57 PM

Kenny's Fine Gael did well in the last election and they are ahead in opinion polls at the moment so I doubt they'd throw their leader out just yet.

I'll agree that he's not the most charismatic of leaders but after Bertie's bungling you'd think people would have woken up to matters by now. At this stage, and I was saying this at the last election, if Fianna Fail get voted back in then we may as well go ahead and disband democracy in this country because the Irish will have proven that they incapable of making rational decisions yet again

**Macy** · 31/03/2009, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

Even the Leas CC who's in her own party, had to threaten to throw her out of the chamber last week, in order for her to shut up.

I think that's just an even handed person in the chair, unlike the bias zero who's normally there and won't let any hard questions get asked.

**pete** · 31/03/2009, 4:25 PM

I think the next election will line up like below & leaders will make no difference.

FF - Trust our experience to get us out of the mess
FG - Similar policies to FF but fresher faces.
Lab - Centre left.

Electorate will have to make choice do they really want to move left, stick with FF or have have FF policy implimented by FG.

**bennocelt** · 31/03/2009, 7:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

So you think he's a good leader & hes the answer to all our problems

no i just think that these kind of polls are terribly misleading - i mean the irish indo do them ever weekend and they only ever get the views of about 1000 or so people

Fg are just FF lite

(sorry i got the 800 figure from the sunday indo - they reported that number in relation to S Bus post poll)

**Bald Student** · 01/04/2009, 4:49 AM

In a poll the number of people is much less important than how those people are selected.

**Macy** · 01/04/2009, 7:34 AM

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Fg are just FF lite

That may have been the case, but they are giving clear alternative strategies at the moment (I don't agree with most of them, but better than the clueless nonsense we're getting from FF/Greens).

This isn't particularly aimed at bennocelt (unless the cap fits), but the FF strategy has moved on from it being "international factors nothing to do with us boss" to "FG are no better, we're all as bad as each other". This is particularly the last refuge of suckers who voted FF over the last number of years to justify their votes that have fooked up the country.