keogh terrible??? ffs. ineffective but terrible? jesus.
I agree, McShane and Keogh were terrible. McShane in particular. Hopefully Finnan will be fit for the rest of the games. Great performance, going a goal down early was really the best thing for us. Dunne could have won it for us in the end!
keogh terrible??? ffs. ineffective but terrible? jesus.
Excellent performance tonight in the main, but some people are getting carried away.
I heard that clown Ken Whatshisface on Newstalk say that "We should play long ball all the time". No we shouldn't. If Folan is our only outlet every time, teams will easily counter the threat. We need to mix it up (like we did tonight).
Wouldn't automatically start Folan now. Yes he did well tonight but still has to prove that he can do it time and again. Robbie would thrive off of an effective big man and maybe Folan is it but tonight isn't conclusive proof.
Tonight also wasn't proof that "we can play if we just put our minds to it". We dominated v Italy away granted. But they were down to ten and they dropped off once they scored and invited us on. Bulgaria away, providing they don't go down to 10, will be a different proposition and we may not be allowed to play as we did tonight. Giles said a while back "Give any player, even a bad player, space and he will look good. The great players are the ones who look good when they don't have time or space." He is spot on. We had time and space tonight, we may not in the future.
Dunphy is a f**kwit. The man is either and idiot (which I doubt) or is controversial for the sake of it.
Trap is doing an excellent job. Massive improvement on what's gone before. This won't be pretty, but we are in good shape.
Looked a cráp stadium.
Trap deserves fulsome praise despite beginning with a minus 2 handicap for starting with Keogh.
Moving McShane central and putting O'Shea wide was an obvious good stroke at half time.
He took too long to replace Doyle.
I have mixed feelings about Keane's role but it worked okay on the night.
Tactically Trap got i just right. He mixed it up quickly and wasn't afraid to go for it - something I wasn't convinced he was capable of. Confidence restored in Il Gaffer.
However I would add to the calls for restraint. We played well and deserved the point but there's still some troubling elements. McShane was awful - flat out awful in the first half - and cannot remain in the team, not when Finnan, Kelly and Foley are knocking on the door. Grosso is a quality left back but he rinsed him five times in the first half and McShane allowed him to cross the ball every time. Meanwhile McShane, for all his willingness, can't cross hot buns.
Not sure I agree with the noise about Whelan. Played well in the second but was utterly anonymous in the first. I actually thought Andrews was our standout midfielder at the time and was surprised when he was taken off. Whelan actually improved when Gibson allowed him the opportunity to push forward. Gibson did ok, he clearly was on to find the penetrating pass and was constantly thwarted by an excellent Italian defence.
Folan did very well, a limited player but plenty of impact. I suspect he'll be better off the bench than a starter but it's great to have the option.
And the last word to Keane. He ships a truck load of criticism - some deserved - but who's there with the crucial goal once again?
Roll on the boys in Green.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
What a game ... but are we only able to play well when we are chasing a game. Italy were always going to try to defend their lead once they went ahead and especially when they were a man down.
What Irish team will show up next?. Is it part of the Irish physique to play better when we are behind and go to pieces when we are ahead.
Here we are at the end of the week haniging in - all the hopes of 4 points down the drain and Bulgaria breathing down our necks.
June 6th is certainly going to br interesting...........................
Given: Little to do other than the goal, genuinely can't remember him having to make a save
McShane: Can't decide if it was him or Keogh at fault for their goal. Improved immeasurably when given space to roam on the right
Dunne: Rock. Absolute rock
O'Shea: Bloodied but not unbowed. Solid again alongside Dunne, and didn't look out of place at right back. Still has to be first choice centre half though
Kilbane: As you were from Zizou, endless endeavour, possibly could have pushed on more in the second half
Keogh: As above with McShane. His substitution changed the game. Hopefully not the last we see of him, but never again on the right, please
Andrews: Could have equalised in the first half. Puzzling substitution, unless he was injured?
Whelan: Came into the game more in the second half, wanted the ball more and not afraid to take a shot either
S.Hunt: How close was he to emulating Houghton?? Never stopped running, ever. Didn't look out of place on the right, gave Grosso a massive headache. Probably his best start ever.
Keane: Worked hard with little to show for it until the goal. Could have had the winner too. Never scores against big teams? Bite me.
Doyle: Ran himself into the ground, possibly exhausted doing the same at the weekend. Thought he could have stayed on for 10 more minutes, but what do I know?
Subs:
Folan: Introduction changed the game. Gave the Italian defence a whole other headache to deal with. Could have had a goal. Very nearly his "Niall Quinn VS Germany" moment.
N.Hunt: Ran his heart out, quite possibly got the final touch on the goal
Gibson: Came in and sat beside Whelan to keep it tidy in midfield. Not yet the finished article, but showing signs of becoming something special
Ireland finally show what they can do under Trapattoni. I can only hope they continue in this vein in the upoming qualifiers. Effort of entire side improved immeasurably from the weekend. Never stopped working for the deserved equaliser. How Cannavaro stayed on the pitch, I'll never know. That midfield quartet will, in all likelihood, never start together again, but Folan proved his worth as a squad player. The question is now, does he start against Italy at home?
This result, and performance will go a long way to restore the good faith of fans of the Ireland team.
Greetings from Bari, what a night, really good performance. Bar a very poor goal conceded. For those doubters on the other tread re Trap, I hope this will shut ye up for the time being. Also many who criticise Keane on this site and is "poor" record against big teams, well right back at ye!!!
Very impressed with Hunt, McShane was very poor though improved in the second half. On we go now, draw in Bulgaria and its all in our hands.
Wrecked, tired and emotional and have a flight to catch at 7 in the morn, but with one point in the bag, its a lot easier. Great night!!
We just drew away to the world champions.
Stop the moaning just for a few days and allow yerselves to be carried away. Go on - live a little. Smile. Be happy.
Together with all our hearts.
No he wasn't. I really don't think I was imagining Glen Whelan dominating that match. We had 67% of the possession. Whelan ran the show. Andrews was very good in the first half too imo but we tend to remember things like that tackle on Pirlo. Most of the things Whelan does are simple and less noticeable but he was excellent. I thought he was motm in Georgia, with or without his goal, but tonight was certainly the best I've ever seen him play.Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/264825...y_lavezzotube/
highlights (but not of ireland goal)
Last edited by tricky_colour; 01/04/2009 at 11:09 PM.
Hunt's prematch interview makes a lot more sense now.
I was worried after the Bulgaria match, because I saw no real determination from our players during that game, and I felt that if we gave Italy the same amount of possession as we had against Bulgaria, we'd be beaten.
But tonight was an excellent performance. To disagree with Giles, I thought the harsh sending off did change how Italy played - I agree that after the goal they would have played more defensively, but the sending off made them far more defensive than they would otherwise have been, in my opinion. They were happy to allow Ireland come forward almost to the edge of their area, and as a result, Whelan and Andrews were able to get on the ball and really do well.
I thought Folan had a very good game, he definitely is another option if we can't pass through teams. Likewise Hunt, he kept the ball much better tonight. McShane and Keogh were poor, poor, poor.
Apart from the Folan substitution, I didn't think the other substitutions were significicant - Gibson offered nothing Andrews hadn't, likewise with Noel Hunt, though if Doyle was just exhausted then fair enough.
For the future, I hope we see more of Folan, even as a substitute to add a different dimension (we could have used him against Bulgaria), and I hope Trap, who in the interview afterwards said he wouldn't be changing his system from our old defensive game, is a little more ready to allow players impose themselves in midfield whenever possible.
I thought the panel were very negative afterwards. I have defended Dunphy in the past, but he was just a joke tonight, with the whole panel saying "Why didn't we see this before now?" instead of commending Trapattoni for what he did tonight in terms of motivation and getting Ireland attacking more.
Sorry but that's not what I remember Andrews for. It was him repeatedly picking the ball up deep in our half and moving it quickly and efficiently that sticks in the mind.
I looked for Whelan to do the same thing, couldn't see it. He wasn't particuarly dynamic on or off it first half imo - improved in the second but I thought Andrews outshone him.
And in terms of memory, I do recall Whelan giving posession away extremely sloppily in the first 15 mins. But what odds.
Last edited by SwanVsDalton; 01/04/2009 at 11:12 PM.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
Some of you idiots are being ridiculous. Keogh and McShane made-up a very inexperienced right hand side that the Italians exploited well for the goal. The two were only playing as a result of injuries. Trapp should have given Foley a chance at some stage before now as he is pure quality, and what's more, a natural full back. Keogh is young and learning his trade, he doesn't play regularly at Wolves on the right and, again, was only used as a last resort. The tactics displayed by Trapp were excellent and they bode well for the future. It was horrible to see the time-wasting tactics employed by the Italian team though and with that in mind we should be so pleased to have scored and taken a point. Tonight is a night to celebrate.
Giles said that Folan did 1 thing of note in the whole game. Then Dunphy mentioned 3 positive things Folan did in the last few minutes alone. People talk about Giles not remembering names but he seems to have a poor memory full stop. Fair enough, give him a clip and let him analyse it and I'd trust his opinion but analysing matches that he saw live just once I'd be listening to a few people before him.
First things first, I'm absolutely delighted for the players, the management, and most of all the fans who travelled over. They were magnificently loud throughout, and you could hear the SS in action.
As for the game, we got a break with the red card, it looked accidental to me. However I think it stunned the players, as they seemed to be in shock for the next 10/15 mins or so. Once we got into the game I thought we were outstanding. Passing, movement, workrate, everything. We deserved to win that game.
I feel sorry for both McShane and Keogh. McShane is not a RB, he's not an international CB either, hopefully the management will blood Foley in Fulham. Keogh is not a RW either, I think he could prosper with time as the playmaker, but too was out of his depth.
You have to hand it to Trap, he was bloody decisive with the introduction of Folan. I've to laugh at this notion that we played route one. With the exception of the last 12/13 mins we played great keep ball. We drew the Italians all over the place, and I wasn't surprised Pirlo was taken off, I thought he'd a shockin half myself. He had to chase which isn't his game at all, due to the little triangles Glenn, Andrews and Keano were playing with each other and the full backs.
I'm not surprised Doyler was taken off, he'd a massive game last Sat and threw himself all over the place again tonight, so much so that Cannavaro was tiring obviously (I thought) and the introduction of Hunt Mk2 was a masterstroke, as not only was he an annoying little imp, but he's got pace, and can whip a ball in too.
All the substitutions were good and ultimately effective. Thats the best football I've seen from an Irish team since Israel away or against a big team then Spain in WC02. Whelan's distribution was superb, he seemed quite sprightly tonight.
Hunty was very good. He really affected the Italians, drew plenty of frees and was unlucky himself.
Once the Bulgarian result came in, it was imperative we got a result tonight. This group has a lot left in it. We've to go to Sofia, Italy to Dublin, and the Vulgars to Italy. Its still up for grabs.
I agree that we've found a new formation. By mistake or not, we now definitely have an Option B. A bit of a tangent I know, but in relation to the spouting of Drunkers wanting carsley, Carlsey wouldn't have suited tonights game, the lack of mobility or finesse wouldn't have worked.
In Sofia these are the options as I see it, if everyone is available:
Given
Kilbane
O'Shea
Dunne
Finnan/Foley
Duff
Whelan
Andrews
McGeady
Doyle
Keane
or
Given
Kilbane
Dunne
O'Shea
Finnan/Foley
Whelan
Andrews
Duff/McGeady
Keano
Folan
Doyle
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
Whats the story with Stephen Reid any chance he could be fit?
They didn't seem willing to admit Trap had got some things right, implying that Ireland had got the result almost in spite of his decisions before and during the game.
As an aside, did anybody think the ref was way too harsh on booking people for having a go at him? It seemed like if you said anything at all, you were in the book. Yet when an Irish player got flattened on the edge of the box, after (rightly) playing advantage, he never booked the Italian afterwards.
Last edited by tricky_colour; 01/04/2009 at 11:26 PM.
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