Quality players in the international wilderness.

[irishfan86]

I think Delap would have been a very good option given that we're having these injury problems to our wingers.

Why not have him out there against Italy? He's better defensively than Keogh, plays on the wing regularly, and is a goal threat with his throw ins.

Our game is already as ugly as hell, why not try and make it more effective?

[DmanDmythDledge]

On Andy Reid:

Played in 21 games this season for Sunderland.

12 of them as a sub, which means 9 starts.

1 goal and 3 assists to date.

28 shots, 10 on target.

2 Yellow Cards

This year he has played 727 minutes of football since January 1st.
----------------------------------------------

Don't care about the stats too much, albeit they do show he is playing but not that much, however one thing that is getting on my nerves, is the constant media chatter and fan chatter that Andy Reid is going to be some saviour. He is ok. He is no Messi.

I don't know where you got those stats from but he has started 15 out of 22 games for Sunderland since Nov 8th. He has been played on the left wing quite a bit, which is his worst of the four midfield positions.

EDIT: started 21/35 all competitions. Higher %age of starts since Sbragia became manager. He has been a regular since he has been appointed.

He is head and shoulders above our current options for central midfield. We don't have a player in the squad (or out of) with his range of passing or vision (perhaps SI). The vast majority of people would have him in our starting XI- fans, media, pundits etc. In recent years only Duff and S Reid have performed better than him in midfield for Ireland.

Him not being in the team is bad enough, but not in the squad at all is mind boggling. Even if Trap's system was a good tactical formation there is no logical reasoning not having a different style of player on the bench. What options do we have if we are not playing well, as has been the case many times this campaign? Take our midfielders selected in the most recent squad:

Aiden McGeady
Damien Duff
Darron Gibson
Glenn Whelan
Keith Andrews
Liam Miller
Stephen Hunt
Andy Keogh
Anthony Stokes

If we want to change the game there is no player that we can add to our midfield that will do that. All options are the same style of player that is currently on the pitch (and the options for the wings are poor). Our way of playing is completely one-dimensional and teams will surely have copped this on by now.

There's plenty more I could say about this as I feel very strongly about the exclusion of Andy Reid but I'll finish with this- leaving him out of the team is a miss-judgement, leaving him out of the squad is completely misguided.

[TerryPhelan]

To my mind, the strongest squad that could possibly be picked - injuries and self-imposed exiles included - would be this:

Given
Kiely
Westwood

Finnan
J O'Brien
Kelly
Dunne
JOS
A O'Brien
Kilbane
Delaney

McGeady
Duff
Hunt
A Reid
S Reid
S Ireland
Carsley
Whelan
Andrews

Keane
Doyle
Morrison
Folan
Long

There are precious few weak links in there. On paper it is actually quite impressive in terms of experienced players who are getting their game at club level.

A team of:

Given

Finnan
Dunne
JOS
Kilbane

Duff
S Reid
Carsley/Ireland
McGeady

Keane
Doyle

... would be fantastic. The central midfield is probably not one that Trap would pick - accommodating Ireland anywhere other than the right wing would require some considerable tinkering, or all-out abandonment of his CDM policy in centre midfield - but at least we would be deliiberating from a position of strength and genuine choice.

I don't raise this merely as a self-indulgent act of wishful thinking of Champ Man-style frivolity. A couple of points are to be made.

One, whatever about Bulgaria missing Berbatov, Bojinov, Petrov and Tunchev, we were always wrong to expect that this would give us a divine right to beating them. The news of Duff's injury seemed to wake people up belatedly to the fact that it might not be a total walkover - the fact that we were missing two of our more influential and technically gifted players already (S Reid and Finnan) had been somehow forgotten. Those were huge losses for us. There isn't any sign of chatter on a Steven Reid thread yet but he has been a massive loss for us. I would rate him in a similar bracket to the late great Keith O'Neill who always electrified Ireland's play when he was on the pitch, though we were cruelly robbed of ever seeing him get a sustained opportunity at that. Reid is influential, composed, technically excellent, precise in his passing, strong in the air and brisk in the tackle. He will be back in September (mate of mine was texting him after the Bulgaria match) and we have to keep the dream alive until then. He'll be back for the Cyprus, Italy and Montenegro matches and should make a huge difference.

Secondly, er, I really like making lists of possible full-strength Irish squads. And teams.

Good night!!

[Guts&Glory]

Reid isnt in the Squad because himself and Trap had an argument and neither party will back down.

Even when Reid was available he wasnt exactly turning in World Class performances - all of a sudden because he isn't in the squad he is World Class - Ireland's Messi etc. - get real!!

Why have managers consistently overlooked him at club level ? They cannot all be wrong surely.

Granted he is a better passer of the ball than Andrews or Whelan but Trap throughout his management career likes defenders who only defend, grafters in centre mid, wingers who can attack and track back and two strikers to run their socks off.

It is his formula and it has brought him success over the years.

He aint going to change at 70 years of age.

Oh an are you listening Stephen Hunt ?????

Stop telling us how ready you are for an Irish start and having a great opinion of yourself and then failing to perform repeatedly when given a starting berth.

Lets see some evidence of your your supposed ability that you never tire of telling us all about in the press............gggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Gareth]

I don't know where you got those stats from but he has started 15 out of 22 games for Sunderland since Nov 8th. He has been played on the left wing quite a bit, which is his worst of the four midfield positions.

EDIT: started 21/35 all competitions. Higher %age of starts since Sbragia became manager. He has been a regular since he has been appointed.

My stats are correct. Compiled from one source and cross checked on another Starting 15 out of 22 games since November still fits my statistics produced I don't doubt Reid is a decent player, my poorly formed point was I don't believe he is the key to success. I think there is an element of "Joe Duffy'ing" going on, over hyping a player the longer a situation goes on. If we are not careful, there will be a tribunal soon on it.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Reid isnt in the Squad because himself and Trap had an argument and neither party will back down.

What the hell has Reid got to back down from? His comments in the media relating to his exlusion have only expressed his strong desire to play for his country and has not resorted to having a pop at Trap, like many people in his situation would have done (not that I'd have agreed).

Even when Reid was available he wasnt exactly turning in World Class performances - all of a sudden because he isn't in the squad he is World Class - Ireland's Messi etc. - get real!!

Who said he was? His performances have been better than our current central midfield options and back up wing options.

Why have managers consistently overlooked him at club level ? They cannot all be wrong surely.

Who? Sbragia is playing him regularly, Keane did for most of his tenure. He was Charlton's star player and captain. Things didn't exactly work out for him at Spurs but I think that's becaues he was bought as a left winger, which is a position he is average in imo. Was a key player for Forest too.

Internationally, since he got his debut, he's been a regular when fit under each manager up to now. Don't know about underage but I think he was a regular. Somebody else will confirm anyway. Your comment couldn't be further from the truth.

Granted he is a better passer of the ball than Andrews or Whelan but Trap throughout his management career likes defenders who only defend, grafters in centre mid, wingers who can attack and track back and two strikers to run their socks off.

It is his formula and it has brought him success over the years.

He aint going to change at 70 years of age.

His system does not suit the players we have and our midfield has struggled in most games since he took over.

Anyone who has actually watched Reid play CM without a blinkered view will know his workrate is more than sufficient. Loads of examples from games with Sunderland last season. Also our home game against Germany last campaign. Anyone who thinks workrate or fitness is an issue with him is simply not telling the truth.

My stats are correct. Compiled from one source and cross checked on another Starting 15 out of 22 games since November still fits my statistics produced

I don't doubt Reid is a decent player, my poorly formed point was I don't believe he is the key to success. I think there is an element of "Joe Duffy'ing" going on, over hyping a player the longer a situation goes on. If we are not careful, there will be a tribunal soon on it.

Well I got mine from tets site;
http://www.chatsoccer.net/irishabroa...9&seasonID=138 (see top right).

Well I disagree that he is not key to our success but surely you can see the difference he would make to our team, even just if he was brought on for the last 30mins of a game? He's going to create clearcut chances- that's a guarantee. I fancy either of our strikers in a one-on-one situation from a Reid through ball.

As I said the majority of people would have had him in our starting XI, even before Trap took over. I think the hype is more to do with Trap failing coming up for a proper reason for excluding him, his talent compared to what's in the squad (eg Miller), our poor midfield performances this campaign (bar opening two games) and other reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. I think it's more to do the vast improvement he would bring, not his actual skill level.

[NeilMcD]

I remember going to Prague for the away game and saying that Reid has to start he has to start and my mates were saying all things that people are saying that he does not track back enough and he does not have the legs etc. There was a quick breakaway in that game that night and Reid matched Rosicky all the way and if the ball had of dropped to rosicky reid was right on top of him. He did that the whole night that night so I do not think there would be a problem at all with himself and Andrews in the team, it woudl be better than what we have now. Also he would be better than Keogh coming on the wing.

[Stuttgart88]

always thought Delap was harshly treated in the past.

Also, having watched Delap for Stoke a few times this season, he is not the one-dimensional player he is painted as being in this forum. Great stamina, very strong, decent passer and, of course, he can take a throw in pretty effectively.

I think he could do a job for us.

Agree entirely.

[noddy102]

To put to bed the argument that Delap should be in the squad...

To claim he plays regularly for Stoke on the wing is a lie. He has played at right back and right midfield for Stoke this season. At no point this season has he played on the right wing. With the system Trap adopts with the Irish team, there is no way we could expect Delap to play on the right wing. He'd never be able to last the pace of going forward and tracking back. Plus he is hardly creative on the ball is he?

Also, what the hell good would his long throws be for the Irish team? Do we really think Doyle or Keane are going to be able to make the best use of this weapon? Fair enough Doyle is great in the air and is strong, but he would be bullied out of it in the box, and tomorrow night, Cannavaro is going to nullify his strengths in the air.

Delap might be a good option at right back. You could argue for his place ahead of McShane in the squad. Personally I'd have Finnan, then Foley, then Kelly, then maybe Delap ahead of McShane. But still, Delap shouldn't be in the current squad.

[Stuttgart88]

He's actually a very experienced central midfielder.

Just like Steven Reid's early years for Ireland, some bright spark decided Delap was a right sided midfielder whereas he was a central midfielder. I think one or two of our past managers couldn't tell the difference between a right-footed midfielder and a rigght-sided midfielder. Delap's best years were as a defensive central midfielder under Strachan. He's still only 32 and arguably the best athlete we have in Steven Reid's absence.

He may not be the answer but Stu's assertion that he's not a one trick pony is spot on.

[noddy102]

He's actually a very experienced central midfielder.

Just like Steven Reid's early years for Ireland, some bright spark decided Delap was a right sided midfielder whereas he was a central midfielder. I think one or two of our past managers couldn't tell the difference between a right-footed midfielder and a rigght-sided midfielder. Delap's best years were as a defensive central midfielder under Strachan. He's still only 32 and arguably the best athlete we have in Steven Reid's absence.

He may not be the answer but Stu's assertion that he's not a one trick pony is spot on.

So are you now arguing you'd have him in the team ahead of one of either of our two midfielders who are regularly playing at central midfield on a weekly basis for the club, even though he has not even played @ central midfield for Stoke this season, because has played there before? Or would you rather he was simply in the squad?

[Scram]

Oh really? So you don't think Alex Bruce is a good choice for fourth choice centre back? Woah. is there anyone you could recommend for that role?? I dont know, perhaps someone playing for an average enough second tier side in England?

Anyway,

- Andy Reid
Yes, would be a good option to spring from the bench. Not an option to start for me though.

- Lee Carsley
Carsley was a part of Irish midfield for years that could never get a grip on a game, don't see why that would have changed now the legs are even older. Wouldn't offer anything from the bench.

- Rory Delap
Absolutely not. Yes he can take a long throw in, but if it wasnt for that throw in no-one would even consider him.

- Clinton Morrison
Nine goals in the Championship this season, he's hardly pulling up trees. Can't really see him troubling international defences. Neil Warnock released him from Palace not deeming him good enough.

- Daryl Murphy
I quite like Murphy, but don't really think he's in a different class to someone like Keogh or Noel Hunt. I'd have him in the squad, but lets face it he's not going to turn a game for you.

- Stephen Carr
No bloody way.

Agree, except for Carlsley who I rate a step above Whelan.

[drummerboy]

I think Delap should be in the squad because of his versatility and fitness levels. Whats the point in having a guy like Liam Miller in the squad who can't command a place in a poor championship side.

[Jicked]

Agree, except for Carlsley who I rate a step above Whelan.

A couple of years ago I would have agreed, but he's 35 now, will be 36 by the time the World Cup comes around. With our set up at the moment we see our current players tiring towards end of games, would Carsley really be able to keep it up for 90 minutes? If not you're then talking about withdrawing him after 60/70 minutes and bringing in Whelan who will then have to get a grip on the game very, very quickly. Then there's the question over if we did get to the WC how would he be able to play 3/4 games in quick succession in the heat, in one of the most physically demanding positions on the pitch. A good servant in his years, but I think its time to move on now.

[Stuttgart88]

So are you now arguing you'd have him in the team ahead of one of either of our two midfielders who are regularly playing at central midfield on a weekly basis for the club, even though he has not even played @ central midfield for Stoke this season, because has played there before? Or would you rather he was simply in the squad?

What I said was "He may not be the answer but Stu's assertion that he's not a one trick pony is spot on".

I think it's too late to throw him in almost as wildcard now, but I think successive managers have treated him harshly. Worse players have got far more caps. I think he's deserving of a squad place on merit.

I think Murphy's ability to play on the left, as well as being good in the air, should put him ahead of Folan. I think Lawrence is a better RHM option than Keogh, and if his Poland cameo is anything to go by, Long is a better RHM option than Keogh too.

I'll be first to admit that none of these is a totally inspiring option buyt they're probably better options than the current 24 allows.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't care what age a player will be next summer, I care about how well he can play now! Is he an improvement? It's a very marginal call.

[lionelhutz]

One thing that struck me about last night (and most other people too) was the horrible bench we had. When we had Hunt playing we had literally nobody who could make any sort of impact and most our bench was composed of fringe players for their club.
How many of the experienced options below, each playing well for their club should be considered? I think each of them offer something different and worthwhile, surely worthy of a squad place. Our strength in depth in the current squad really has me worried if we get hit with a few injuries.

- Andy Reid
- Lee Carsley
- Rory Delap
- Clinton Morrison
- Daryl Murphy
- Stephen Carr

Replace what we had on the bench last night with those guys and I think we'd have serious options to change a game. Right now we're too predictable.

Ive just being reading over the posts in a couple of threads and I'm just wondering - has someone taken over Ciarans log in and started posting? Because ive read his posts in the last few days and to my surprise there's actually been some insight and intelligence in his posts.

Regarding the substitutes, I thought the exact same in Croke Park on Saturday - Hunt, McGeady, Kilbane and Keane were having awful games and there were absolutely no options on the bench. I know its probably been said already but it was frightening how inept we were at keeping possession on Saturday. Oh how I pined for Andy Reid.

[third policeman]

I cant remember anyone on this site ever advocating Stephen Quinn, yet he is a consistent performer for one of the best teams in the Championshipo and could be playing in the premiership next season.

I've seen him play a couple of times live and more recently on the TV and he looks like quite a decent player. He is as good as many of the midfielders who are eitrher being selected or mooted at the minute, but I wonder if he could actually provide the answer to our left back problem. He is left sided, has good technique, has reasonable pace and is a tenacious tackler. We are a small country with a limited playing pool, I think we should be willing to entertain the idea that our best team might involve playing people in different positions to where they play for their club. People reject Delap because they doubt whether he is any better than Andrews / Whelan or our current wide players, but would he be a worse right back than McShane?

[lionelhutz]

I agree with you about Delap. I think he could definitely be an option for us at right back. Didn't he play there before for Ireland? McShane always looks like he's holding a live grenade when he's on the ball. A dear in headlights would be more composed.

Not sure about Stephen Quinn - haven't seen him for a while. But of what I remember he looked very weak on the ball and never seemed to have enough time or space on the ball to create things

[Closed Account 2]

I'd like to see Alan Lee in the squad. I think we need to at least have the option of a tall aerially dominant striker in the squad. In years gone by the likes of Quinn always gave us an option. In international football especially a lot of teams who are not over-endowed with skillfull attacking players use tall target men to great effect. Even quality teams have, on occasion, adopted this approach in the last decade e.g. Germany (Jancker/ Bierhoff), Italy (Toni / Vieri), Czechs (Koller / Lokvenc), Russia (Pavlyuckenko / Pogrbnyak), Sweden (Ibrahimovic / Kennet Andersson). Even when we had Gary Doherty on as a make shift striker for a few matches he had the ability to hurt certain teams e.g. during the Euro 2004 qualifiers I think he ended up being our top scorer...

At 30 he's not got much tarmac left on the runway, but at 6ft 3 he does give us an option from the bench that the likes of Noel Hunt and Long don't provide. Maybe Folan is a similar player to him, but I think with Folan's injury record Lee might be a better bet in the short term.

I'd like to see him on the bench and thrown on if we need to get a goal and change the system up a bit.