One trick / on your bike Trap moanfest

[Jicked]

Cestlavie, you are the type of person who does not deserve to support Ireland.

[jebus]

This is your team from that thread

Keeper: Given (agreed, so does Trap)
RB Foley or O'Brien (any better than McShane? Probably not)
CB Dunne O'Shea (agreed, and it's Trap who has made this partnership)
LB O Dea (any better than Kilbane? Maybe, maybe not)
CM S Reid S Ireland (one may never play again, the other doesn't want to play, so you're living in fantasy world here)
LM Duff (Best of what we have I guess, Trap agrees)
RM Mc Geady or A Reid (pick one. Either way McGeady isn't good enough, neither is Reid)
ST Doyle Keano (Traps choice too)

So the ringing changes that you would make to Traps team are Foley or O'Brien in for McShane, untested O'Dea in for Kilbane, and a central partnership that will never happen.

[SuperDave]

Have a look at my post under Stepen Ireland thread, thats a team I think could be the way forward if you really do want to build a teqam for the future. Let me know what you think, Offcourse I would be hopeful that other players will come to the fore in the next year or two.

that's not what i asked. I asked.... who would you have brought on that night? Clue: have a look at the bench..... Was there anyone there who had ever scored away from home?

[ainsie]

I dont think he should go yet as he is potentially as good as you'll get. What I would like to see as I said elsewhere is he would swallow his pride and admit he just does not have the players to play his style. 6 defenders and 4 attackers the good old 6-4- formation.Also show us he is a good enough coach to change games in a tactical way.
You can only put your finger in the dyke for so long , eventually the water will come flowing in and that what it looks like at the moment , lots of leaks with sticking plasters on them.

I agree that Andy Reid is not the answer but he might be part of the answer. Carsley is not the answer but he does what he does better than Whelan.
I know Delap is not the answer for sure but he would be an option of the bench in the last 20 minutes for a change of tactic , better than the serial bench warmer miller.

Young Long is not the answer but surely his pace running at a tired defender might be an option late in a game instead of sticking with hunt loosing every second ball.

We all know we have just got the best of players at the moment but I think we have better players than Bulgaria. We just made them look better last night.

There had to be some way we could have changed it around last night but stubbornness prevented that.

Do we have a friendly before Bulgaria , I think so. Would be a good time to try a plan B even for a half but will he ? No,

I dont think he should go but maybe he should start earning his money.

[cestlavie]

I didnt pick the bench, On the night from the bench chosen, I would have had to put McGeady on the left after Hunt was taken off and A Reid in the middle for S Reid.

[The Fly]

This thread is an embarrassment to this website!

(Can admin please merge it with the 'One trick Trap' thread' - it's better to concentrate any criticism in one thread, otherwise there is constant overlapping)

[NeilMcD]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

You really know nothin about his injury do you.

Stephen Reid did a cruciate knee injury and had swelling of the knee before the ireland games and after. He was going to have constant swelling of the knee after every game and this would have not only put his career in jepeordy but also his health into the future. He needed another operation. Him playing and extra 15 or 20 mins in Montenegro did not do the damage.

[SuperDave]

I dont think he should go yet as he is potentially as good as you'll get. What I would like to see as I said elsewhere is he would swallow his pride and admit he just does not have the players to play his style. 6 defenders and 4 attackers the good old 6-4- formation.Also show us he is a good enough coach to change games in a tactical way.
You can only put your finger in the dyke for so long , eventually the water will come flowing in and that what it looks like at the moment , lots of leaks with sticking plasters on them.

I agree that Andy Reid is not the answer but he might be part of the answer. Carsley is not the answer but he does what he does better than Whelan.
I know Delap is not the answer for sure but he would be an option of the bench in the last 20 minutes for a change of tactic , better than the serial bench warmer miller.

Young Long is not the answer but surely his pace running at a tired defender might be an option late in a game instead of sticking with hunt loosing every second ball.

We all know we have just got the best of players at the moment but I think we have better players than Bulgaria. We just made them look better last night.

There had to be some way we could have changed it around last night but stubbornness prevented that.

Do we have a friendly before Bulgaria , I think so. Would be a good time to try a plan B even for a half but will he ? No,

I dont think he should go but maybe he should start earning his money.

But Trap is being criticised for a short term approach and not building for the future (I appreciate you may not have made this point, but it has been made). Whelan looked better last night than in any of his previous games (although again I appreciate that isn't saying much), and is 10 years younger! Carsley is 35, and may not even be playing professionally by the time of the World Cup in 2010!

There is way too much negativity going about here when we are in a strong position, looking pretty solid defensively (which is an improvement on our last three managers) and strong favourites to make a play off place.

I Trust in Trap!

[cestlavie]

Cestlavie, you are the type of person who does not deserve to support Ireland.

And you are the type of a person who attacks the poster rather than offering any kind of constructive point of view. Just have a look back at your last 10 posts. Its healthy to have a debate, who do you think you are to say who can and cant support Ireland?
I also see a point from somebody else mind you so you are not alone in that world of yours, re: "Have Ireland really been any better to watch at any point in the last 7 years?"
Have we ever really played good football since the late 1980's? Recent games remind me off that spectacle that was the Egyptian game!

[Jicked]

I couldn't be arsed replying to someone who seems like they are 10 years old, blames Trapattoni for Steven Reid's 3 seasons of injury hell, and wants a complete change of policy and system, which consists of bringing in Kevin Foley of Wolves for Paul McShane of Sunderland. It's not good for my blood pressure.

[cestlavie]

My point exactly Jicked, you have nothing to offer on this website but insults and from the last post you appear to be having trouble reading, bed time for you! Mammy must be calling!

[The Fly]

My point exactly Jicked, you have nothing to offer on this website but insults and from the last post you appear to be having trouble reading, bed time for you! Mammy must be calling!

This coming from a poster who started a thread entitled; "On your bike Trap and Co."
Frankly, I am stunned that this thread has popped up - a definate low point for this website.

[cestlavie]

Is there something wrong on this website that if you start a debate you get lambasted for making a point, Wouldnt it be great if we were all singing of the same hymn sheet. I dont think I am alone with this point of view. I would love to be proven wrong seriously I would. Get back to debating my initial point.
Nobody has even questioned Liam Brady's current influence or contribution to the team???? In his day, If his football ability was being stiffled by a manager or system how would he have reacted?
I have no bother with Trap being in charge for the full campaign cant see him being able to continue to manage beyond that point anyway but I am also looking to the future, I want a team built that will be truely competitive so that we can realistically not just qualify for the next European championship but also give it a real go.

[SkStu]

I dont think he should go yet as he is potentially as good as you'll get. What I would like to see as I said elsewhere is he would swallow his pride and admit he just does not have the players to play his style. 6 defenders and 4 attackers the good old 6-4- formation.Also show us he is a good enough coach to change games in a tactical way.
You can only put your finger in the dyke for so long , eventually the water will come flowing in and that what it looks like at the moment , lots of leaks with sticking plasters on them.

I agree that Andy Reid is not the answer but he might be part of the answer. Carsley is not the answer but he does what he does better than Whelan.
I know Delap is not the answer for sure but he would be an option of the bench in the last 20 minutes for a change of tactic , better than the serial bench warmer miller.

Young Long is not the answer but surely his pace running at a tired defender might be an option late in a game instead of sticking with hunt loosing every second ball.

We all know we have just got the best of players at the moment but I think we have better players than Bulgaria. We just made them look better last night.

There had to be some way we could have changed it around last night but stubbornness prevented that.

Do we have a friendly before Bulgaria , I think so. Would be a good time to try a plan B even for a half but will he ? No,

I dont think he should go but maybe he should start earning his money.

i agree with everyhting bolded. I dont think there is any good to getting rid of him as there is little else out there at the moment.

To all the people defending Trap, i want to ask one question.

Why is he unquestionable? Why are his actions infallible?

Healthy debate and constructive criticism of any managers tactics/selection is a good thing.

edit: i suppose thats technically 2 questions...

[SkStu]

another question for the defenders of Trap.

Will his success be defined as: 2nd place, is it a play off berth, or is it qualification for the World Cup?

what if we dont finish in the play off berths? Is it simply unlucky or do we then begin to question why he didnt try and finish off Bulgaria after such a super start? We should have put them to the sword... we have to go to Cyprus, Bulgaria and Italy and Italy have yet to visit us... i dont know about anyone else but we need to win at least 2 of those games to be fairly sure of a play off berth... i dont see it.

[zenokelly]

I cant stand watching Ireland at the moment, I have been giving Trap the benefit of the doubt up until now as we were still in with a good shot of qualification. Horrible football, I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, I pity poor Doyle who is a quality player who has been a shining light for league of Ireland football.

So what, we're not in with a good chance of qualification now? Take a look at the table please.

And whats the point of playing wild,expansive football with players who aren't talented enough to play that way. I want to be in SA next year and if that means we score 2 goals in the next five matches I'd bite your hand off.

As for the "good" money, that's your decision, maybe you should keep ur "good" money and watch it on the box. As Dunphy would say "if you want to be entertained go to the cinema". I go to support the lads not heckle about whether they perform for my entertainment in the stands.

[kingdom hoop]

Jeez, harsh thread. Completely over the top. Expecting him to hop on a bike is a bit much at his age. You could at least call a taxi for the man!

[Conormack]

were making due with what we had... to be honest we only deserved a draw against bulgaria.. all for traps but sometimes his tatics actually have me wondering.. if that was away to bulgaria id understand getting a goal and trying to hold out but we didnt even have a right proper go. yes wed chances but we really needed to just go at them. trap and co to go id say no but he should really be listening to whats around him and adjust tactics more... andy keogh brought on in the 89th min. whats use in that????

[The Fly]

Is there something wrong on this website that if you start a debate you get lambasted for making a point, Wouldnt it be great if we were all singing of the same hymn sheet. I dont think I am alone with this point of view. I would love to be proven wrong seriously I would. Get back to debating my initial point.
Nobody has even questioned Liam Brady's current influence or contribution to the team???? In his day, If his football ability was being stiffled by a manager or system how would he have reacted?

Starting a thread such as this, is reflective of a certain ignorance of the potential and merits of this Irish side. There is nothing wrong with criticism, any side's management team should be open to critique - it keeps them on their toes. This thread is not that.

This Irish side is achieving results in the face of having a limited squad. Currently, this side has 'no central midfield.' When I see a midfield comprising Whelan, Andrews and Hunt, I shudder. These three players are journeymen and are not of sufficient ability to prosper at international level. They even fall short of a certain level of competency. How some people expect an Irish team to play good football and express themelves when it's midfield is comprised of these players is beyond me. Some posters have written that Trapattoni is stifling their talents and that they should be allowed to express themselves, following on from this I repeat the question - what 'talent' do you wish to be expressed? These players do not have the positional sense or game intelligence to play in this fashion. Trap is not stupid. If he allowed this, we would be left exposed in defence and therefore left open to conceding. Do you want us to lose?
Of the current crop of central midfielders, Darron Gibson is the most talented. He is highly rated by many respected foorball observers but is he ready for a starting berth?
In regards to Andy Reid, I am critical of Trapattoni for not having him in the squad. On the basis of footballing ability, he should be in the it. It is clear however that Trap sees him as winger and not a central midfielder and in this case he wouldn't get on ahead of either McGeady or Duff but he is nonetheless a good option to have on the bench. He is definitely not however, the answer to all our prayers, as some posters would like to portray him.

Trapattoni's game plan relies heavily on McGeady and Duff. That this is so obvious - is a major flaw. An opposition manager of any notable esteem will know that to neuter Ireland, one needs to nullify the threat from the flanks. In fairness to Trapattoni, it is very hard to disguise this when our current midfield is so inadequate. Not only that but we had Paul McShane and Kilbane playing at fullback last night. Paul McShane is truly awful, no need for any further elaboration. Kilbane, despite having been a great servant to Irish football, has aged and his effect is almost devoid of any potency despite still bringing some measure of reliability. In analysing the wingers themselves, McGeady is our most naturally talented player. He is frustrating at times, but when utilised correctly we will see his true worth - which will be when he is used as a number 10, which Trap alluded to earlier in the campaign. Hunt, despite bringing much passion and endeavour, is another painfully limited player. I still can't believe some posters thought he was better than Duff or that Duff's absence wouldn't be felt much because Hunt was a more than adequate replacement.

Keane and Doyle do not really function as a partnership. Doyle is a player I have come to admire greatly in an Irish shirt, though he is technically limited. Keane's potency, as we already know, relies heavily on his forward partner. In spite of a lack of chemistry between the two and more significantly a lack of service, they have performed fairly well so far. I repeat; how do people expect them to thrive when our only creative outlet from midfield last night was McGeady.

Trapattoni has brought a defensive solidity to this side which was sorely needed after the debacle that was Steve Staunton's management reign. Have people forgotten this? Dunne and O'Shea now look formidable in central defence and thankfully we now have a calmness and assurance in this area.

Overall I just think that people need to have some realism with regard to the Irish side at present. In my opinion, our present position in the table is very good considering the players at our disposal. Yes, Stephen Reid and Stephen Ireland would make a huge difference and change the complexion of the Irish team immeasurably but they are not available and that is not Trapattoni's fault.
Trapattoni & Co. on yer bike - Nahhhhh!

[SilkCut]

And you are the type of a person who attacks the poster rather than offering any kind of constructive point of view. Just have a look back at your last 10 posts. Its healthy to have a debate, who do you think you are to say who can and cant support Ireland?
I also see a point from somebody else mind you so you are not alone in that world of yours, re: "Have Ireland really been any better to watch at any point in the last 7 years?"
Have we ever really played good football since the late 1980's? Recent games remind me off that spectacle that was the Egyptian game!

Cestlavie, you are absolutely correct it is healthy to have a debate. However when you start a thread titled "On your bike Trap and Co." immediately after just one bad result (even though at the start of qualifying we probably would have taken it) you should really expect to get hammered. This knee jerk reaction suggests you know very little about football. For example, it seems obvious you don't recall watching the dross served up by Jack Charlton's teams which we all loved and followed passionately because it was successful. Do you remember the game v's Egypt in 1990? Worst game of football ever played anywhere on this planet at any time in history!!! It felt like the end of the world but we still went on and made the 1/4 finals. Trap is by far and away the most experianced and qualified manager we have ever had, to be looking to sack him know is quite simply ridiculous. We are in 2nd spot in a group containing the world champions, did we ever expect to finish top?? We are in a very healthy position so relax, stop worrying about Reid and Ireland and get behind our team. That way when we qualify (Via the playoffs) you will not feel guilty about cheering them on in SA.