One trick / on your bike Trap moanfest

[ainsie]

What??

Sorry , I meant these are examples of who I think should not be there.

[cestlavie]

I cant stand watching Ireland at the moment, I have been giving Trap the benefit of the doubt up until now as we were still in with a good shot of qualification. Horrible football, I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, I pity poor Doyle who is a quality player who has been a shining light for league of Ireland football.
What is Bradys role, surely he has to has some influence, how can he stand over the type of football we are trying to play, he was shafted by Charlton as he probably played too much football, we had players in that generation that had to compromise their playing style in persuit of results no matter what. He should be ashamed of himself.

Seriously lads, I would be happy if I could see signs that we are building a good football team for the future but i cant see it under the present regime, we are making no progress and its not going to happen if we are forced to put up with this tripe. The worst thing that could happen this team is to somehow gain qualification because we would be a brutal addition to the world football scene and Trap and Co would feel fully vindicated, Sorry to say but its time to go Trap. Its too painful to watch.
And its no excuse to say like Fianna Fail (all the problems are caused by the world recession, coz I am not buying that!), we dont have the players, their are players but we dont pick them and we are not encouraging those players to commit to our country, I wonder why?

[jebus]

Are you for real?

I realise how poor we are to watch but can you name me a couple of world beaters that he's leaving out? Players that would excite the nation in the same way as a Brady, a Sheridan, a Roy or a Houghton?

We've got a poor squad that is severely lacking in players that can take on a defence and scare the life out of them (Duff's injuries have taken too much of a toll, Steven Reid's career is finished and McGeady is rubbish) so we're left with having an organised defence that will have to rely on Doyle's flick ons and set pieces to get goals.

We're not Spain, we never will be, in short

[SuperDave]

i stopped reading when i saw "people pay good money".....

it's a results business. 1-1 at home to bulgaria isn't a bad result..... remember how happy we were when we drew 1-1 at home to the second seeds last time around? 1 bad result and suddenly bandwagon jumpers like the OP are on the team's back.

you were probably booing at the final whistle last night and you and your feckless ilk demonstrate everything that is wrong with the the Irish support at present. I wonder, have you ever been to an away game? Did you even go to games at Lansdowne? Your attitude disgusts me.

[irishultra]

First of, if you are a 'real' supporter you are there to watch the team win by whatever means possible to gain qualification for the next tournament, its not about being 'entertained for your money'

However I disagree with Jebus in that we don't have the players to play 'good football' I remember reading a Gabrielle Marcotti blog and he mentioned how Calgiari's manager massimiliano allegri allowed his team to go out and play and express themselves and made players with seemingly limited ability look like Pirlo.

Trapattoni has imposed this negativity on the players. I believe that with a formation similar to Bilic's Croatia Ireland could play some great football, particulary since we have two very good wingers. You don't need the best players to simply pass the ball and move and play in a positive manner butunder Trap we simply seem to lack this ability. Look at our 2002 team, we played some really good football and were nominated as the 'most entertaining team' of the tournament with players who appeared to be of a 'limited ability'

We do have the players, Keith Fahey is an excellent passer of the ball and plays in a free way. He like S. Ireland completely believes in his ability to get on the ball and do things. I wanted him in when he was playing for Pat's even more than I want him in now. Fahey imo would revel in International football where the pace is quite slow which would suit his game. He would also link up the midfield with attack, and is a better option than andy reid as he is far more mobile and agile. And please don't give me 'what has he proved' nonsense. Bilic played Luka Modric didn't he while he was playing in a '****e league'

[cestlavie]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

[SuperDave]

Sure, we could go out and try to play expansive, free flowing attacking football, but does anyone here actually think if we had tried that last night the bulgarians wouldn't have done it better? I think if we had tried to play like that we would surely have lost. I think what last night demonstrates is that we should have no fear going to Sofia. They scored once, through an OG, and other than that rarely threatened. When they did, our keeper was up to the task. A draw in Sofia and we pretty much write Bulgaria's challenge off there and then.

[jmurphyc]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

So wanting to keep one of his best players on the pitch was the wrong thing to do? It's not as though Reid has a reputation for being naturally fit, is it? Perhaps Trap should be blamed for the recession too, after all the country was doing fine until he arrived.

[cestlavie]

i stopped reading when i saw "people pay good money".....

it's a results business. 1-1 at home to bulgaria isn't a bad result..... remember how happy we were when we drew 1-1 at home to the second seeds last time around? 1 bad result and suddenly bandwagon jumpers like the OP are on the team's back.

you were probably booing at the final whistle last night and you and your feckless ilk demonstrate everything that is wrong with the the Irish support at present. I wonder, have you ever been to an away game? Did you even go to games at Lansdowne? Your attitude disgusts me.

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

[jebus]

The reason why Steven Reid is injured is purely because the stubburn whore that is Trap would not make changes in Montenegro and ran Reid into the ground, he was just back playing and he overstrectched him. That game was for the winning if we had off replaced Hunt with Reid and put on somebody like Murphy/Long. At least andy Reids delivery would have giving us a chance. That game just sums them up.

Steven Reid had injury problems long before Trap came along, you do realise this.

As for Andy Reid, I for one don't think a Sunderland bit part player is the Second Coming that some of you seem to believe he is but I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

Either way I'm having serious doubts that you've watched more than a handful of games in your life

[jmurphyc]

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

Agai, how the **** is that his fault?

[elroy]

[QUOTE=cestlavie;1132673]I I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, IQUOTE]

Bet you were one of the people that booed the team last night!! Fcukin disgraceful. No one makes you pay money, stay at home if your not going to go and support the team. We are Ireland, not Brazil, our resources are very limited. Like it or not, Trap has a system that is getting results. Its isnt entertaining but its effective. If you appreciate the tactical element of football then you will enjoy it more.


"we dont have the players, their are players but we dont pick them and we are not encouraging those players to commit to our country, I wonder why? "

Like who?????? Andy Reid, ill give you that. Not a world beater but worth his place in the squad. Dont even mention SI, he doesnt want to play for us.

[jebus]

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

You're blaming this on Trap are you? Sure he's the one putting the price of pints up as well in the hope that we get so drunk we forget about Andy Reid

[cestlavie]

So wanting to keep one of his best players on the pitch was the wrong thing to do? It's not as though Reid has a reputation for being naturally fit, is it? Perhaps Trap should be blamed for the recession too, after all the country was doing fine until he arrived.

You should really watch that game again, Reid was outstanding in the previous game but it was clear to see that he had nothing more to give on the night in that second half. You cant make excuses like that for Trap.

[SuperDave]

Let me clarify what I mean by good money, what a rip off to pay 80 euro to watch Ireland at home when I was able to go to Montenegro and pay 5 euro to watch a gam, 13 euro to watch Italy. You really need a reality check.

Bringing in a straw man argument.

I like it.

That's a totally separate one from the present debate. The tickets are priced to the level the market will bear. There were 60,000 there last night at a minimum of 50 quid each.... the money goes back to grass roots (with a chunk to the GAA of course). Probably a net figure of 1.5 or 2 million.... What is your problem? Opposed to market economics?

Anyway, that is a totally separate argument from your central point which was in relation to negative tactics. We were 18 minutes from beating Bulgaria and drew cos of an unfortunate OG. Even then, although outplayed, we arguably had the better chances. We are still second and still favourites to finish there and make the playoffs, yet we have people calling for the manager's head? There really is no pleasing some people, and to draw a tenuous link, it is that sort of now, now, now approach, demanding instant success that has lead us to a short term approach that has ****ed up the economy. And as to anyone saying that is what Trap is doing, I think it's clear that by playing the likes of Gibson, Whelan, Andrews (admittedly a little older) and McShane rather than older equivalents (Carsley etc) Trap is looking towards a sustainable future as well as building a team that can compete.

When you've won titles in five countries, come back to me. (maybe not five, but hey, when you've won as much as Trap has, you can forgive him for losing count!)

[SuperDave]

You should really watch that game again, Reid was outstanding in the previous game but it was clear to see that he had nothing more to give on the night in that second half. You cant make excuses like that for Trap.

what was the bench that night? Here's a clue:

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/prelimi...886/index.html

Who would you have brought on to change the game? Liam Miller? 19 caps, 1 goal? Andy Reid was not a change you'd have made for Steven Reid..... and neither of those players have ever scored away from home.

[The Fly]

Can the threads 'One Trick Trap,''Quality players in the international wilderness' and this one be merged into one thread? They are all pertaining to much the same thing.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sure where I stand on all this. I think I came away from last night's game just less disappointed with the result/performance than I was in the crass realisation that players like McShane are just so utterly lacking the basic skills to fulfill standard roles that no bloody manager would do any better. But would Foley do better and if yes, then it's the manager's job to make judgment.

My own instinct would be to pick the balanced team I posted on the Bulgaria match thread this evening and trust that over a campaign that trusting decent players to play well will be good enough to get a play off. But that's in the face of the stark reality that that's not a million miles away from what Stan did and we fell well short of what was required. The fact is that we've been woefully uninspiring but are still probably favourites to get a play off place. Bulgaria will drop plenty more points.

[cestlavie]

what was the bench that night? Here's a clue:

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/prelimi...886/index.html

Who would you have brought on to change the game? Liam Miller? 19 caps, 1 goal? Andy Reid was not a change you'd have made for Steven Reid..... and neither of those players have ever scored away from home.

Have a look at my post under Stepen Ireland thread, thats a team I think could be the way forward if you really do want to build a teqam for the future. Let me know what you think, Offcourse I would be hopeful that other players will come to the fore in the next year or two.

[KR's Post]

I'd put andy reid in for an hour, see how he goes, create a bit of magic and hopefully a goal and withdraw him for Whelan or Andrews!

At the moment we are a team that are unbeaten in our qualifying group but who lack in genuine quality, mainly though because Trap won't let these Boys go out and play.. 2nd in the group after 5 games and 11 points is nothing to sniff at. Remember Bulgaria dropped points last night to. Realistically we were always fighting it out for the Playoff spot and we are in prime postion to get that. I can't see Bulgaria winning in Italy, no way, and ourselves either. So at the moment i feel we are in the position we could've hoped for at this stage. I'd rather be in our position than Bulgarias.

But Trap................. Please let the Boys go out and play, stop restricting their talents!