Crowd trouble at NI v Poland

[old git]

Even if Craigan were making a gesture (which he isn't), is Sandro going to condemn Boruc for crossing himself in front of our fans?

For, if Craigans apparent gesture is irresponsible, then Boruc's was too.


Edit: I just checked and Sandro apparently lives in Italy. The gesture Craigan is making means something in Italy (Healy got sent off by an italian ref in the 2-2 Wales game in Cardiff), but it doesn't mean anything here. So dismount your horse please sir.

craigans gesture / celebration !! i have no problem with that ... but to try and condem boruc for blessing himself give me a break.. everybody knows that boruc blesses himself before game starts & again at half time before second half starts... the problem is that a controversal celtic goalkeeper blessing himself in front of n ireland fans if it was a goalkeeper from any other team nothing would be mentioned about it

[EalingGreen]

craigans gesture / celebration !! i have no problem with that ... but to try and condem boruc for blessing himself give me a break.. everybody knows that boruc blesses himself before game starts & again at half time before second half starts... the problem is that a controversal celtic goalkeeper blessing himself in front of n ireland fans if it was a goalkeeper from any other team nothing would be mentioned about it

1. Craigan's gesture was in front of the Kop Stand (i.e. home end), after the game had finished. From the angle where the Polish fans were (in the far end of the South Stand), I doubt whether many could even see Craigan - that's even if they paused from taunting the riot police, throwing missiles, waving flares and lighting fires on the terrace in front of them.
Context is everything, and whilst "Sandro" is doubtless as capable of innocently misconstruing something as easily as the next person, it would appear from his postings that he is determined to use an entirely harmless celebration to "prove" a point, thereby demonstrating his own offensiveness, not that of Stephen Craigan (incidentally as decent a guy as you'd meet in a long day's walk).

2. Tbh, I didn't even notice Boruc crossing himself, but assuming he did, my attitude is exactly the same (imo) as the majority of the rest of the NI support: "So what?".
That said, I have no doubt that the volume of the stick Borus got was increased by the fact that he plays for a club side which is the great rival of that of a section of the home support. Indeed, I'd go further and accept that some of those (Rangers) fans may also be motivated to boo etc by sectarianism - though I don't personally know that.
Nonetheless, it honestly seemed to me that the stick which Boruc got was no different in tone from that which every other keeper gets at WP, merely in volume.
And as it became increasingly obvious that the stick was getting to him, so the volume increased, so that by the end, it could be said that he was at least partly responsible for all three NI goals.
Beyond that, all I will say is that by the time the last one went in, the overwhelming reaction of the entire NI support was beyond hostility etc. Rather, it was quite simply the funniest thing any of us had ever seen at a football match; if anything, poor Artur was more pitied than scorned.

3. I'm sure you're not "having a go", OG, but it wasn't just Boruc who (apparently) blessed himself. For after coming onto the field for the 2nd half, I did notice Sammy Clingan crossing himself not once, but twice - and rather ostentatiously so, at that. Indeed, it is very possible that he was making a point to the fans.
And you know what? The fans made their own point back, not by slagging him, but rather by singing his praises along with the rest of the lads.
"There's only one Sammy Clingan,
Only one Sammy Clingan,
He comes from the Falls
And he's got Big Balls,
Singing in a Clingan Wonderland!"

[ifk101]

The following is a statement released today by Maciek Bator of the Polish Community Forum of NI:

Groups representing Polish people in Northern Ireland have said they regret the trouble at last month's World Cup qualifier in Belfast.

There was trouble before and after the fixture, damaging community relations in the south of the city.

The Polish Community Forum of Northern Ireland criticised the "intolerable behaviour" of so-called Polish fans.

After the match several Polish families in Northern Ireland were attacked or intimidated, mainly in the loyalist Village area of south Belfast.

Mr Bator said about 40 people were forced to leave the Village area because of the intimidation, but that most still wanted to live and work in Northern Ireland.

Since the trouble there have been intense efforts to rebuild relations with the community.

"We felt we had to tell communities in Northern Ireland that we were ashamed by this violence and want to rebuild relations," he said.

The forum, whose groups also come from towns such as Newry, Londonderry and Portadown where large numbers of Poles are living, represents about 27,000 Polish people living in Northern Ireland.

"As has been repeatedly indicated, as Polish immigrants living in Northern Ireland we disassociate ourselves in every respect from the group of so-called supporters who came to Belfast not for the football match but deliberately to bring about rioting," the forum said in its statement.

There are tens of thousands of Polish people living and working in Northern Ireland, drawn in during the boom years when work was easier to find.

Mr Bator said that after the football violence "a few" Poles had decided to leave, but said trouble finding employment had been a large factor in this and the trouble was being used as an excuse.

"We have to explain that the Polish community is here for the long-term," he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8001650.stm

It really is a sorry state of affairs when a non-sporting organisation feels the need to apologise for the actions of idiots that merely share their nationality.

[Den Perry]

Booing a player because he plays for Celtic/Rangers is ridiculous, booing Boruc cos he's a d*ck is fair enough. Im sure there were one or 2 sectarian comments from individuals, in the same way that Id be certain the same would happen about a Rangers player in Dublin. Every fanbase has ignorant, sectarian racist *****s, its simply a matter of statistics. I see nothing to suggest the NI fans were worse than anyone else

It seems clear from all reports that there was a substantial group of polish hoods who went looking to cause trouble. Anything Ive read seems to say that the locals who reacted violently were not at the game, given that the polish hooligans didnt have tickets this makes sense. It also makes the arguments of people who would love to blame NI fans for everything look silly.

Im sure there were a few NI fans that got involved unnecessarily, and they deserve the same treatment as the Polish scumbags but anyone who tries to claim the same wouldnt happen in Dublin if the Polish started wrecking the place like they did above is simply full of ****. Every town has people who are delighted with the chance to get involved with something like this.

The people who came to cause trouble dont care, theyl head home and carry one while the local Polish will have to deal with the aftermath. Theyre are tensions building already all over the UK and here between some locals and the foreigners 'stealing jobs'. This just adds fuel to those flames and there will be innocents caught in the middle.

I don't know what exactly went on but I can't say I'd blame the NI fans for reacting and defending themselves..rem the Irish fans got a kicking in Russia a few years ago, and there were absolutely no recriminations in the return match...sad