Gan teanga, Gan tír

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Macy
Thread over, but Sóc even Conor wouldn't come out with all that sh!te..... Pretty sure FF was pro-EEC in that Referendum (although stand to be corrected).....

Funny how you say thread over then try to get in a dig.

FYI Of course FF were pro EU but they were also pro Irish as an official working language.

Also (not stiring ****e, just interested) I think the invoking of Godwin's law was a bit hasty, Godwins law specifically only mentions Hitler and Nazi. Where do you draw the line if the rule is to be extended to facism, do you stop there, how about right wing?

[pete]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to be criticising the EUs treatment of irish given our national behaviour over the years?

[dahamsta]

I was joking, ha ha. This is why over-eager patriots drive me nuts, they overstate and huff and puff and generally come off sounding like Ian Paisley-like w*nkers. For example, SÓC: Calling Fianna Fáil fascist is just... well, silly. Yes they have an abundance of the aforementioned in the party, yes the party is so corrupt it thinks of it as perfectly acceptable; yes they're ruining this country; but they are /not/ fascist, they're just right-wing* tossers. Calling them fascist puts you in the same boat as the ignorant fools in the North that insist on calling their opposition Sinn Féin/IRA. It's just pathetic.

adam

[SIZE=1]* Conor and pals, don't try and tell me FF is left-of-centre, I'll just laugh at you.[/SIZE]

[Macy]

Originally posted by SÓCcfc
FYI Of course FF were pro EU but they were also pro Irish as an official working language.

well surely they should've be arguing against the referendum on this point if they are such strong supporters of the Irish language.... You can't push all the blame onto FG if FF were supporting the same legislation...

Fianna Fail has been in power far longer than any other Party since the state's foundation, so it is a ridiculous arguement to blame FG* for a few years at the state (at a time when FF* wouldn't even recognise the democratic will of the people).

[SÓC]

Originally posted by Macy
well surely they should've be arguing against the referendum on this point if they are such strong supporters of the Irish language.... You can't push all the blame onto FG if FF were supporting the same legislation...

That would be why i said FF are not without sin either


Also Adam I think you have misread what I said. I'd say read my post again.

I called the only organised facist group (The Blue Shirts)in this history of our state facist. I never have called FF or FG facist.

[dahamsta]

Fair enough. I don't see the point in harping on about the past though. What's the point?

adam

[niamh]

Other languages, that more people speak on a daily basis, have not been included so why do we think there is a special case for Ireland??
The reality is, as mentioned above, this point was lost years ago and what the Irish government etc do to encourage the Irish languagw among Irish people is a disgrace.
It can be done...look at Welsh.

[dahamsta]

Well said niamh.

[wws]

Originally posted by Vetinari
I was joking, ha ha. This is why over-eager patriots drive me nuts, they overstate and huff and puff and generally come off sounding like Ian Paisley-like w*nkers. For example, SÓC: Calling Fianna Fáil fascist is just... well, silly. Yes they have an abundance of the aforementioned in the party, yes the party is so corrupt it thinks of it as perfectly acceptable; yes they're ruining this country; but they are /not/ fascist, they're just right-wing* tossers. Calling them fascist puts you in the same boat as the ignorant fools in the North that insist on calling their opposition Sinn Féin/IRA. It's just pathetic.

adam

[SIZE=1]* Conor and pals, don't try and tell me FF is left-of-centre, I'll just laugh at you.[/SIZE]

Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator (Bertie?), stringent socioeconomic controls (Charlies Budget?), suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship (maybe not, just boredom), and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism (aye nationalism is there - racism? debateable).
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.


I reckon there's a case to answer there in fairness

[max power]

weel if all these people don't like how europe treat us and don't use the irish language lets give all the european money back and go back to the days of the horse and cart, cop on grow up and realise that irish is our second language and its the people who made it second.

[Macy]

Originally posted by wws
typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism (aye nationalism is there - racism? debateable).

Nothing to debate, just look at some of McDowells comments on immigration....

[dahamsta]

All democratically elected my friends. You have the electorate to blame.

adam

[max power]

well said adam, no point in compaining when the election is over

[Macy]

Still think you're allowed when you didn't actually vote for them......

[wws]

who's complaining?

[wws]

I don't really understand the point you're making here conor
all I said was there was similarities between that Irish party and elemnts of fascism, it was slightly tongue in cheek but some things are uncanny

whether they got voted in in numbers to form a coalition is irrelevant to my post

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
Refresh your memory here. It's got a good review of the votes cast, numbers elected etc. etc.

http://www.rte.ie/news/election2002/.../national.html

I think it's called democracy...

So a facist party can't get elected to Government? There's examples of other far right parties in Government in other countries - Austria for example.

Unless what your saying is that we haven't got the right to question the Government until the next election time....

[irishstranger]

Originally posted by max power
weel if all these people don't like how europe treat us and don't use the irish language lets give all the european money back and go back to the days of the horse and cart, cop on grow up and realise that irish is our second language and its the people who made it second.

Dev would have loved that one("sure aren't we self sufficient in shoe laces")

[dahamsta]

Originally posted by Conor74
I mean, would it make my argument more valid if I just said that anyone who had left wing leanings is a "commie" or "red" or "anarchist"?

Sadly, all too many people do.

adam

[wws]

Originally posted by Conor74
But in Ireland we should be thankful that we have been spared the excesses of both historical and recent swings to the far right.

I find this utterly hilarious. was it Ireland were internment without trial was set up with gulags in the curragh? For people who's views were suspected of being different from the ruling government?

we've a lot more in common with countries of that time (the main facsist era, than you seem to realise)