Can the eL ever be fully pro?

**Gary** · 09/12/2003, 7:03 PM

Having read Dermot Keelys piece in todays sun, he seems to reckon that the Ireland will never be able to sustain a fully professional league, stating that "in reality we are an amatuer league". His comments are a follow on from the difficulties Shels, Bohs and Shams are currently having.

Is he correct to poo poo the leagues aspirations of a full time set up, or are these the ramblingsof a bitter twisted little man whose own obvious failing to adapt to a more professional set up has left him feeling inadequate?

Please vote.

**Colm** · 09/12/2003, 7:15 PM

I think that for the coming season that only ourselves, Bohs and Shels will be capable of being fully pro. Pats have an outside chance.
The following season I would hope we would have 5 fully pro teams... the 4 metioned above and Longford.
I think that we will have a fully professional league before the end of the decade. To say that we won't is short sighted, defeatist talk and Keely is only spouting this rubbish because he knows he is finished in el football.

**TommyT** · 09/12/2003, 7:55 PM

Longford have a good side but they're almost all part-timers. The 6 city clubs could be full-time it simpossible to see any of the others sustaining it. Though Sligo, Galway and Waterford could get to what Pats currently have.

**A face** · 09/12/2003, 7:55 PM

He is dead right ........ Never

The way it is now .... but the league is getting better all the time, if you keep looking at the bad then fair enough. But there a load of positives from the year gone alone. And with the standard improving all the time then hopefully we'll (every club in the league, first included) be recruiting more fans all the time.

Keely is a bitter twisted FAILURE who walked out on Derry and nearly left them up the creek. He cannot be trusted and i'll never listen to a word he says. He has already show his character ..... and that is one that gives in easily ..... the league is better off with out him.

So that how he earns a crust now .... trying to rubbish the league in some rag for a couple of quid.

That dirty yellow b�stard !!

Oh yeah .... i voted YES

**niamh** · 09/12/2003, 8:09 PM

While I think that certain clubs would be able to sustain themselves as a professional business, I don't think the league will ever be fully professional.

**James** · 09/12/2003, 8:13 PM

agreed too many clubs out there that arent as progressive as Rebel Army and in time we will leave them all behind.. so teams / clubs imo will remain semi pro / amateurish.. while prob City, the [SIZE=0.5]big club[/SIZE], the money Club and the homeless shud be able to sustain a fulltime setup..the rest as it stands now would need a dramtic change around.

long-term i'd love to see it.. short term aint gona happen though..but definately every club should be striving towards it as we are

**S�C** · 09/12/2003, 9:48 PM

Pat Dolan said at the start of the season he only wants professionals at Cork City. He explained what he ment, the model I think all clubs should all follow;

A Club being run in a fully professional manner off the pitch which all the backing and behind the scenes people there. Underage structures etc. Progress is being made on this thanks to the Uefa Licencing

Players who are 100% committed to give their best every week for Cork City, players who have the P & P.

Some players may have other jobs. Billy Woods sells cars afaik and plays football. He has two jobs, but he's a professional player. John O'Flynn plays football professionally full time but also works for Puma by promoting their boots.

Denmark won the European Championships with 7 part-time players in their squad. The fella who scored the winning goal was a school teacher. Nobody can argue that they werent professional whilst they might not have been full time.

**tiktok** · 09/12/2003, 10:10 PM

think it's possible but only in the longer term, we have a long way to go

**A face** · 09/12/2003, 11:30 PM

You'll all have to admit, there are a number of club have really come into their own in a short space of time.

All the work that is being done at the moment is all done with little or no support from the media, the government and the general public.

If we ever reel in the armchair supporters .... the league will really take off. If it can do this well without their support, imagine it with their support.

To turn around and say it will never take off, is completely off the wall and narrow minded.

City are seeing a good patch at the moment, but if every club was that progressive then lads, people will sit up and pay attention, no doubt about it. To say otherwise is wrong.

**Macy** · 10/12/2003, 7:10 AM

IMO no, it can never be fully pro. Shels and particularly Bohs have shown it's not sustainable (very few clubs have the non-match related income streams of Bohs). To early to say at Cork whether it will work or not, but it will good to drag this thread up in 2 years time if it doesn't.

The most sustainable model is the one that Pats are doing (Scandanavian originally), where they have negogiated 2 mornings a week off for the players from their jobs. They train 2 week day mornings and Sunday morning, and then evenings 3/4 times a week.

The reason it is not sustainable is because we don't have the support of the general sporting public, and therefore don't have the income stream. Cork maybe the exception, but when you take the actual crowd figures rather than your boasts I have my doubts.

**crc** · 10/12/2003, 8:18 AM

we are unlikely to have a completely professional league, but we should have a completely professional organisation. We blame the 'media' (sometimes quite rightly) for not giving us enough attention, but we have to ask what can we do ourselves.

In France last season (don't know about this year) the LPF ran a TV ad campaign to get prople interested in the League. They tried to market 'Ligue 1' as a well packaged product. The LPF was basically trying to give ownership of the French league to the French people, alot of whom follow the Premiership, Serie A.

One thing we could start to do is put a large, visible eL logo outside a prominent part of each ground. This would give the league a better identity in the minds of the general public. This could also include the next home fixture.

**Macy** · 10/12/2003, 8:35 AM

From Unison/Irish Indo

Teams still over-spending in search for success

The best paid player in the Eircom League is reported to be on an annual salary of �80,000, which works out at over �1,500 per week.

A lot of the full-time professionals are earning between �800 and �1,000 and there is at least one part-timer taking home �1,000 per week with a few others on �600.

There is one First Division player on �900 a week with another year of his contract to run. Other players in that lower division, where only a few hundred usually turn up to watch, are earning �400 to �500 per week.

A representative of an English Division Two side recently admitted that clubs in the Nationwide League were struggling to compete financially with Irish clubs.

"We are offering players �400 per week to play in England and they're heading to Ireland because they can get double that amount," he said.

So we're out paying the English 2nd Division, and people think a fully pro league is viable!

**Macy** · 10/12/2003, 8:43 AM

Actually also articles in the Indo about Kilkenny and Shels

For once even Oily makes a good point about the Desmonds, Magniers, McManus' and Courtneys of this country...

**Xlex** · 10/12/2003, 8:52 AM

some interesting figures from the Guardian... July 31, 2003

23 In 1992-93 the average wage for a Premiership player was �75,000 per year. In 2001-02 the average wage for a Premiership player was �600,000.

24 In 1992-93 the average wage for a First Division player was �50,000 while in 2001-02 it was �200,000. Over the same period, the Second Division average wage went from �20,000 to �70,000 and the Division Three average wage increased from �15,000 in 1992-93 to �42,000 in 2001-02.

34 Average First Division attendance was 15,000 in 2001-02 and the Second Division average was 7,200. The Third Division average attendance was 4,345

If were paying second division standards we're a long way from their attendances... might be a case of apples and pears tho...

**Macy** · 10/12/2003, 9:04 AM

Originally posted by Xlex
34 Average First Division attendance was 15,000 in 2001-02 and the Second Division average was 7,200. The Third Division average attendance was 4,345

If were paying second division standards we're a long way from their attendances... might be a case of apples and pears tho...

On top of that, we're a good bit of their admission prices as well even if a club was matching that average attendance....

Sheridan · 10/12/2003, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Xlex
If were paying second division standards we're a long way from their attendances... might be a case of apples and pears tho...

Here are the top non-league averages this season, which would appear to be a more reasonable target.

1 Hereford United (Nationwide Conference) 3799
2 Shrewsbury Town (Nationwide Conference) 3720
3 Aldershot Town (Nationwide Conference) 3291
4 Exeter City (Nationwide Conference) 3078
5 Chester City (Nationwide Conference) 2954
6 Woking (Nationwide Conference) 2343
7 Accrington Stanley (Nationwide Conference) 2191
8 Stevenage Borough (Nationwide Conference) 2070
9 Telford United (Nationwide Conference) 1991
10 Burton Albion (Nationwide Conference) 1975

**Xlex** · 10/12/2003, 10:17 AM

There's no fooking way I'd settle for a league of conferance standard, which is why I completely reject a more reasonable target such as the examples provided below when a representative of an English Division Two side recently admitted that clubs in the Nationwide League were struggling to compete financially with Irish clubs.

Sheridan · 10/12/2003, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Xlex
There's no fooking way I'd settle for a league of conferance standard, which is why I completely reject a more reasonable target such as the examples provided below when a representative of an English Division Two side recently admitted that clubs in the Nationwide League were struggling to compete financially with Irish clubs.

No-one's suggesting that there's any direct correlation between attendances and standards of play. Realistically, however, if Dublin City are pulling in Aldershot-style averages next season, I'll be happy...

**Xlex** · 10/12/2003, 10:29 AM

I conceed.

**TommyT** · 10/12/2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Sheridan
No-one's suggesting that there's any direct correlation between attendances and standards of play. Realistically, however, if Dublin City are pulling in Aldershot-style averages next season, I'll be happy...

You won't be.

That said could someone in Longford explain to Hanley that there are more supermarkets in Dublin than in places like Longford.

This guy seems to have lost the run of himself. Fair play to Longford for what they've achieved in recent years but it has to be remembered that Finglas alone has the same population as Co Longford.