what is wrong with showing loyalty / pride in your club and staying there for your career ..Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
" football is a simple game "
Gary Neville played at the highest level for his entire career. Clearly though he had to drop a level and win the South American Championship as well to prove he was good.what is wrong with showing loyalty / pride in your club and staying there for your career ..
what is wrong with showing loyalty / pride in your club and staying there for your career ..
Well there will always be the impression that other better players in that team (Giggs, Beckham, Keane, etc) carried him to an extent. I don't think there was ever a big demand from other top clubs for Neville, to the extent there was for say Keane (who Juventus were after for a time) or Beckham (who had Barca and Madrid after him). There is nothing wrong per se with staying at a club, but it would seem a bit strange that he never had the desire or inclination to test himself in another league or club. For instance, had he played in Italy in the late 1990s / early 2000s he would have had to adapt to a totally different style of football, and really pushed his development as a player. It might be one thing if you are the captain and true talisman of the team (e.g. Totti at Roma, or to an extent Rooney at Man Utd now) but for an average first team player, it seems like a lack of desire to test himself.
Remind me again how many clubs Gerrard and Carragher have played for.
I think you are wrong to assume that playing in the Libertadores is a drop from playing in Europe. To dismiss Latin American football with such nonchalance is dissapointing but not surprising. The worlds greatest players (Batistuta, Maradona, Pele) have played in the Libertadores, and the Argentine league is one of the most competitive in the world. There isn't the 1-2 team domination you get in England (especially of late when all of the following have won: San Lorenzo, Estudiantes, Banfield, Boca, River, Velez). Playing an away match in the Estadio Pedro Bidegain or El Cilindro in Avellaneda, is far far more intense than playing some midweek fixture away at Hull or some sunny day out at Craven Cottage. The tackles are far more physical, the level of skill is arguably higher, the pace is much more pronounced and the crowd much, much more intimidating.Gary Neville played at the highest level for his entire career. Clearly though he had to drop a level and win the South American Championship as well to prove he was good.
I think some people on this forum really struggle to comprehend a world existing outside of the the Premiership, let alone in another continent.
I presume you are talking about G. Neville being very average for the majority of his carrer? How you can say for the most part of his career he has been very average is beyond me.
He has played with one of the worlds biggest clubs since 1991 under one of the worlds all time great manager, he has nearly 400 club games and 80 odd international games under he's belt, He has won: Premier League (8): 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2008–09, FA Cup (3): 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
Football League Cup (1): 2005–06, FA Community Shield (3): 1996, 1997, 2008, UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08, Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999, FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008. As well as being voted on the PFA team of the year in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2005, 2007 and the team of the decade as the best right back to play in the PL.
Now don't get me wrong, Neville is a little pox bottle and annoys the bjebus out of me (yes i'm a united fan) but to say he was very average at best is uneducated and a personal point of view rather than the truth.
Carragher is very similar to Neville in that sense - to a degree being carried by a team of better players. Although as he has never won the league you could argue he always has stuff to achieve.
Incidently Gerrard nearly moved on after the CL in 2005 - pretty sure he was at the 11th hour in terms of signing with Chelsea, again you could argue that he was still looking to get the league title, or possibly he views himself as an integral talisman of the team (similar to Totti at Roma).
Edmundo I would be completely lying if I claimed to have a vast knowledge of South American football. I thought it was safe to assume that European Club football was the strongest in the World, seeing as that's where most of the top South Americans ply their trade. I know this is partly for financial reasons but money buys the top players and that's just the way of the world. It wasn't a critism of South American football, which I'm sure is of a high quality and entertaining. The fact that it's more competitive doesn't make it a better standard, just more interesting. You say that Beckham, Giggs and Keane carried Neville and the likes of Gerrard carried Carragher, I don't agree with this at all. Neville, in his own right, was one of the best right backs around, just because he's wasn't a particularly fashionable player doesn't mean he was carried. I would consider Carragher the heartbeat of LFC, far more so than Gerrard and if anything it was Carragher that carried a lot of Liverpool players at times.
why is it a lack of desire
" football is a simple game "
Latest installment is that Tevez has said he was directing his gesture at Neville and not the United fans.
"I thought he was in the wrong because we were team-mates and I never disrespected him, I always respected him. I feel he was a boot-licker when he stood by Ferguson's comments that I wasn't worth that money"
So he is saying the Neville, as Club capt. of United was wrong to back his manager up. He would also know that disrespecting the club cpt. of a supporters football club is disrespecting the fans themselves. I think up until the other night the majority of United fans still held Tevez in very high regard but his actions have tainted his image.
Come off it man I don't think the United fans are that sensitive. I support United and think no less of Tevez now. I wish they still had him instead of Berbatov but they don't, so it's time to move on. The stuff the last night is being blown way out of proportion.
I think Manchester United were right not to pay the money for a player who wouldn't be first choice for them as long as Rooney was fit
Well said mate. Just on the point of directing it at the Man U fans do people not realise the Man U fans were in the other corner and side of the pitch. Anyway agree with what you said. Heard John Giles last night saying for Neville to get involved in it was proof that as Tevez said he's an idiot. Anyway time to move on people! Know a few STH at Man U and they have lost no respect for Tevez at all. They are actually raging they never signed him up.
Last edited by KK77; 22/01/2010 at 11:34 AM.
You do realise the Man U fans were in the other corner on the opposite side of the pitch?
United fans were covering the whole area behind the goal Tevez scored the penalty.
Yes but in my opinion he should have been first choice, along with Rooney. 07/08 proved that they could play very effectively together. There's no comparision between Tevez's contribution at United and Berbatov's thus far, in my mind.
Not the sideline though
Correct, but Neville was closer to the United fans than his own bench, Tevez turned towards him and gestured, it clearly looked like he was doing it to the fans at the time, and there probably was a bit of it directed to United fans but he has been a clever boy and come out and said it was for Neville. Why didn't he do it to Rooney for trying to wind him up just as he was about to take the spot kick? Or at his best mate Evra when he said City are a small minded club who only think about beating United and not on the bigger picture and trying to be consistant week in week out and to actually try and win something? Why single out one player when several were doing pretty much the same thing - which was that they were trying to wind him up.Not the sideline though
It's a nothing story really if were being honest. In simple terms, United weren't willing to pay his wages demands, leaves united, joins their city rivals, players mouth off in the papers before the game, returns to "haunt" them and scores twice in the 1st leg.
He actually probably should have kept his gob shut until he was 100% City were going through to the final, he will look quite silly if United go on and beat city in the 2nd leg and reach the final, Que a lot of songs and gestures directed the way of a Mr. C. Tevez.
Ferdinand back for Hull and Vidic about two weeks away. That means Vidic will miss the trip to The Emirates, massive loss for that one. If those two could stay fit for the remainder of the season Utd could be a different proposition altogether. Ferguson also said that he's going to select Hargreaves in his Champions League squad so it would be good if we could see him before the season's end.
Ferdinand to make come back
Ferdinand will probably be given a ban after his elbow into Fagan so back to square one...
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